U.S. says it will cut costs for clean energy projects on public lands

[Ben Lamb]

I get what your saying...

I can just as easily say... yeah well that's what happens in the desert, I can take you to active oil wells in lots of spots that you can barely find because things grow back so fast.


Which again is totally irrelevant because you level 1000 acres in ND for solar panels you're going to have the exact same effect, which is my point. You're just swapping a more surface use intensive form of energy for another and slapping a green sticker on it.

I can take you to pristine rivers that will kill you because the PFAS is so fricking high after stuff grew back so fast.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I can take you to pristine rivers that will kill you because the PFAS is so fricking high after stuff grew back so fast.

I mean... how about a thousand miles of coastline

 

[Ben Lamb]

Absolutely there is a difference. No one argues it's better for that immediate area than OG development. But I defer to Ben's points when looking at the big picture.

Solar wouldn't work very well in ND with current technology. Between our weather and lack of sunshine through half the year, it's a pretty tough life for a solar panel on the frozen tundra. Which is why solar is similar to OG in that regard. Have to put it where the sun shines.

Yes & No. There are some solar farms around us and they still produce a profit. I'd wager that the Peninsula is far more cloudy in the spring, winter & fall than ND.

Solar, combined with wind & storage is the route for new home builds, farm & ranch, etc.

There's also a lot of companies that will lease your property to install solar so they can get the increased grid space & energy into the market, so I think the idea that current capacity with transmission is limiting is fast becoming obsolete.

Point being - we could move towards a situation where panels are used for shade for autos, for roof space, etc and we're within 20 years of being at the point where we'd look back and laugh at how dependent we were on an energy source that has cost literally millions of lives, and millions of acres of land.

 

[brocksw]

I get what your saying...

I can just as easily say... yeah well that's what happens in the desert, I can take you to active oil wells in lots of spots that you can barely find because things grow back so fast.


Which again is totally irrelevant because you level 1000 acres in ND for solar panels you're going to have the exact same effect, which is my point. You're just swapping a more surface use intensive form of energy for another and slapping a green sticker on it.

You're not wrong and I don't disagree with that point. Like I said, shit sandwich vs shit sandwich.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I mean... how about a thousand miles of coastline

View attachment 225031

 

[brocksw]

Yes & No. There are some solar farms around us and they still produce a profit. I'd wager that the Peninsula is far more cloudy in the spring, winter & fall than ND.

Solar, combined with wind & storage is the route for new home builds, farm & ranch, etc.

There's also a lot of companies that will lease your property to install solar so they can get the increased grid space & energy into the market, so I think the idea that current capacity with transmission is limiting is fast becoming obsolete.

Point being - we could move towards a situation where panels are used for shade for autos, for roof space, etc and we're within 20 years of being at the point where we'd look back and laugh at how dependent we were on an energy source that has cost literally millions of lives, and millions of acres of land.

Sure, but my point was that we're not optimal. If someone talks about the best places for solar development on a mass scale (beyond consumer grade panels on/next to houses), no one is going to name ND as a top destination. It's places in the SW that see tons of consistent sunshine and less inclement weather that decreases the lifespan of those solar panels (hail, blizzards, freezing rain/sleet, massive temperature swings, etc).

 

[Ben Lamb]

no one is going to name ND as a top destination.

First of all, I want to be sure someone in need of a sig doesn't miss this gem.

Second, totally agree.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Sure, but my point was that we're not optimal. If someone talks about the best places for solar development on a mass scale (beyond consumer grade panels on/next to houses), no one is going to name ND as a top destination. It's places in the SW that see tons of consistent sunshine and less inclement weather that decreases the lifespan of those solar panels (hail, blizzards, freezing rain/sleet, massive temperature swings, etc).

So screw public lands as long as they aren't in ND?

 

[brocksw]

First of all, I want to be sure someone in need of a sig doesn't miss this gem.

Tell that to the out of state bird hunters...

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Sure, but my point was that we're not optimal. If someone talks about the best places for solar development on a mass scale (beyond consumer grade panels on/next to houses), no one is going to name ND as a top destination. It's places in the SW that see tons of consistent sunshine and less inclement weather that decreases the lifespan of those solar panels (hail, blizzards, freezing rain/sleet, massive temperature swings, etc).

Here's my point... I don't think either of these is preferable to the other.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Tell that to the out of state bird hunters...

Birds aren't real.

 

[brocksw]

So screw public lands as long as they aren't in ND?

Not at all what I'm saying. Come on man you know that.

 

[brocksw]

Birds aren't real.

Just up here on my soapbox spitting facts, sheeple.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Not at all what I'm saying. Come on man you know that.

should have added a winkey face


Point of my numbers, is that sometimes I think people have a hard time understanding the scale and efficiencies of various energy forms.
Honestly I just started going with those numbers and wasn't sure how they would turn out. I mean I definitely was guessing solar was waaay more.

We generated 38% of our power via natural gas and 2.8% from solar. So that means if you actually tried to replace OG with solar your at the very least doubling the amount of impact we already have.

Not to mention we are trying to swap out all IC cars for electric which is going to explode electricity demand... and the fact that aside from energy we us petroleum to make everything... from your boots to your medicine.


Also <10% of us Petroleum is produced from public lands it's mostly on private.

 

[88man]

The hoops we jump through to build a 4 acre pad site...

then this... so much for those sage grouse and crucial wildlife corridors
View attachment 224505

please don't mention that at a BHA meeting. Sorta crazy right.

 

[88man]

If you look at Europe they are at least 5-10 year ahead as far as renewables. What you see there is a lot more biomass compared to the USA.

I work in the biochar industry and we are seeing a lot of power generation and biochar production combined, which also earns significant carbon credits. There is a company in Montana already doing this called Genesis and I have been contacted by several on the west coast who are looking for shut down coal plants out here to convert to biomass/biochar. That will be the next big thing as coal dies as renewables like solar/wind move in next door to old coal plants so they can tie into the infrastructure and the facility is converted over to biomass. The nice thing about biomass is it is a renewable that works when the wind is not blowing and sun is not shining. it also allows some wood to be utilized that otherwise just ends up on fire at some point and causes expensive problems.

There are some new wind energy technologies that are coming out that are different than the big windmills. The wiggle generators are very interesting.

The other one that I was shocked to see in a DOE technology commercialization program I am in is Hydrogen. There are a lot of companies working on hydrogen technologies even though it's rarely discussed by consumers. Crazy $ going into Hydrogen right now.

I am really curious to see how the nuclear plant being built in Wyoming goes.

what % of Europe is public land?? I never feel comfortable with the Europe analogies.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

please don't mention that at a BHA meeting. Sorta crazy right.

I'm convinced the lobbyists from big tobacco moved over to solar... it's the only explanation

 

[88man]

I'm convinced the lobbyists from big tobacco moved over to solar... it's the only explanation

good stuff!

Maybe one day we could cover all the blm with solar and wind and sell electric to Europe & China

 

[Ben Lamb]

I'm convinced the lobbyists from big tobacco moved over to solar... it's the only explanation

Solar technically isn't part of the Merchants of Death Club for lobbyists. Maybe a junior associate at best, more likely a new hire for the janitorial staff.

They need to step up their game to get on the same field as O&G.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

we're within 20 years of being at the point where we'd look back and laugh at how dependent we were on an energy source that has cost literally millions of lives, and millions of acres of land.

Kinda our MO