U.S. Debt Ceiling. 31.4 Trillion!

[more_cowbell]

Not trying to stir anyone up, but I think this is funny: it is easier to ensure two people have the same resource so they don't fight over it.

 

[DouglasR]

Jealous, absolutely not.

Concerned that they will default on these loans and cause an even bigger problem for the rest of us who are financially responsible, absolutely. lol

dude I don’t think the woolridges buying a can am to take Jesse, Willy, Bobby Memphis, Waylon and Sawyer to black mountain off road’s gonna bankrupt the country.

 

[DouglasR]

dude I don’t think the woolridges buying a can am to take Jesse, Willy, Bobby Memphis, Waylon and Sawyer to black mountain off road’s gonna bankrupt the country.

But I got the kinda debt no honest man can pay so idk homie

 

[DouglasR]

@eyeroll pour some lean on the ground for these tight mf’s

 

[DouglasR]

Or their student loan PMTs have been on hold for a few years

Gotta catch up to the fortunate kind somehow.

 

[BigHornRam]

Agree to some extent, but remember that the spending results in GDP. You cut spending, you cut GDP. It's a tradeoff. You can't have a cut in spending and magically create GDP growth (some politicians like to push this fantasy).

SAJ-99 is a Keynsian. So is Janet Yellen. Makes sense what informs your opinions. Keynsian economics is fantasy imo, so that explains why we disagree so much.

Keynesian economics https://g.co/kgs/8wjzQV

 

[more_cowbell]

Gotta catch up to the fortunate kind somehow.

When I drive past our local food cart pod, most customers look to be in their teens and early 20s. But the food prices are at least 25% more than if you'd buy it elsewhere. Like a food cart's small brisket sandwich is $16 (before tip). A calzone not much bigger than a hot pocket, is $12.

I wonder where those kids get the money to eat there, unless they only each go there about once a week. Or they're all TikTok "food influencers" cashing in on views

 

[antlerradar]

Depending on the area you could probably sell it for more, work with a developer carve it up into little ranchetts.

True in some places, but if that was the case the third ranch you listed would not be listed as a signal unit.

You would only pay capital gains if you held onto it for a while after you inherited it, the basis is established when you acquire the property.

If you sell half and intend to hobby farm on the other half you are paying the capital gains. On a place like the third ranch you listed that has been handed down since the 1800's the basis could be close to zero.

Taxes are tied to value, sure a businesses value to potential buyers is how much revenue it can generate. That doesn’t negate the fact that you are giving an incredible amount of value to another generation via property value.

On a family owned ranch that value could often be looked at as payment for working a lifetime for payment well below the national average.

So the King Ranch should be passed down tax free because of ‘heritage’ but the heirs of Modern Pastry should have to pay or sell the business?

Why should ether of the next generation have to restart the business when the previous generation kicks the bucket.

I understand @VikingsGuy dislike of creating a permanent princeling class. The inheritance tax has been around long time in one form or another. If reducing the princeling class is the goal of the tax, it has mostly been a failure. Much more successful as tax accountant / estate planner employment program.

 

[SAJ-99]

SAJ-99 is a Keynsian. So is Janet Yellen. Makes sense what informs your opinions. Keynsian economics is fantasy imo, so that explains why we disagree so much.

Keynesian economics https://g.co/kgs/8wjzQV

Not sure why it took this long for you to figure it out. Everyone of each party is a Keynesian when they aren't in office, and none of them actually practice Keynesian economics.
Me thinks you like to use the word Keynesian as a quasi insult to me, but you don't actually know what it means.

 

[noharleyyet]

 

[antlerradar]

SAJ-99 is a Keynsian. So is Janet Yellen. Makes sense what informs your opinions. Keynsian economics is fantasy imo, so that explains why we disagree so much.

Keynesian economics https://g.co/kgs/8wjzQV

Keynes argued that to boost growth in tough economic times the government should spend money. He also argued that in good times that government should cut back on spending.
Today's Kaynsians are only half Kaynsians. Full speed ahead on the first part, jumping ship on the second.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

True in some places, but if that was the case the third ranch you listed would not be listed as a signal unit.

If you sell half and intend to hobby farm on the other half you are paying the capital gains. On a place like the third ranch you listed that has been handed down since the 1800's the basis could be close to zero.

The cost basis is the value of the property at the time it's passed down. So if I own a 10MM ranch the prudent thing to do is have it appraised and then have the executor put down 10MM on the inventory. My kid get's the property with 0 gift taxes owed. When then go to sell the basis will be 10MM so if they sell immediately for 10MM zero taxes. If they sell for 12MM in a couple of years they pay long term capital gains on the 2MM.

If they subdivide the cost basis still stands, but if subdivision increases the value they would pay taxes based on the difference.

I understand @VikingsGuy dislike of creating a permanent princeling class. The inheritance tax has been around long time in one form or another. If holding reducing the princeling class is the goal of the tax, it has mostly been a failure. Much more successful as tax accountant / estate planner employment program.

It's been a failure largely because the middle class has delusions of grandeur in most cases the family farm or business isn't worth enough to make estate taxes relevant.

Why should ether of the next generation have to restart the business when the previous generation kicks the bucket.

I would argue they don't have to restart it, I don't have issues with someone having to buy into a business they didn't work a lifetime to create.

So a 14MM property (currently), you're paying taxes on 1.08MM or (14-12.92) which comes out to $385,800.

You could pay that in cash or take out a loan on the property and pay it off over time. So putting some skin in the game on an asset that again you did nothing to build or earn.

Bootstraps

 

[antlerradar]

So a 14MM property (currently), you're paying taxes on 1.08MM or (14-12.92) which comes out to $385,800.



Bootstraps

Many 14 mm dollar ranches do not generate the revenue to pay off that much debt. A 16 mm dollar appraisal is a death sentence for even the most efficient ranches.

 

[BigHornRam]

Not sure why it took this long for you to figure it out. Everyone of each party is a Keynesian when they aren't in office, and none of them actually practice Keynesian economics.
Me thinks you like to use the word Keynesian as a quasi insult to me, but you don't actually know what it means.

An economic philosophy brought forward by the Lord Keynes. Just posting it for others to read about. You are a full on New Keynesian, so no changing your opinions.

John Maynard Keynes - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I believe that private entities are more productive and efficient in spending and stimulating the economy than government entities. Unchecked government spending leads to inflation, which is a tax on everyone, rich and poor. We are all paying that tax right now.

 

[Handlebar]

Many 14 mm dollar ranches do not generate the revenue to pay off that much debt. A 16 mm dollar appraisal is a death sentence for even the most efficient ranches.

14 mm dollar ranch is roughly a 700 mother cow outfit. Big enough to make you work 24/7 with a return of maybe 7% before expenses/taxes . It ain't the Dutton ranch

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Many 14 mm dollar ranches do not generate the revenue to pay off that much debt. A 16 mm dollar appraisal is a death sentence for even the most efficient ranches.

We all saw Donald paying zero taxes right... so because his business doesn't make a profit he should be able to give it to Don Jr. free a clear... a couple billion in assets because of paper losses.

Hyperbolic for sure, but the point stands who cares if running cows isn't profitable it's still passing assets worth millions.

As aside, I'd be willing to entertain something like a perpetual conservation easement on a ranch. So you want to run cows fine the appraised value will be on the 40 acres around the homestead, the rest of the lands are valued at $0. If the family wants out the 40 acres around the homestead can be sold at market value, but the surrounding land becomes property of the state to be managed as state trust lands.

Can't have it both ways it's a working family ranch or a multi-million dollar asset.

 

[antlerradar]

It's been a failure largely because the middle class has delusions of grandeur in most cases the family farm or business isn't worth enough to make estate taxes relevant.

You just listed three properties that are bumping up or will be soon with inflation on the estate tax. Two are unlikely to generate enough agricultural income to support even one family. The third is on the low end of production for a signal family.

 

[antlerradar]

14 mm dollar ranch is roughly a 700 mother cow outfit. Big enough to make you work 24/7 with a return of maybe 7% before expenses/taxes . It ain't the Dutton ranch

Only if you live in the middle of no where. Put a 700 cow outfit close to the mountains with a ski resort or a trout stream and you are looking at a lot more than 14 mm.

 

[Handlebar]

Only if you live in the middle of no where. Put a 700 cow outfit close to the mountains with a ski resort or a trout stream and you are looking at a lot more than 14 mm.

yes should have clarified, western Dakotas, eastern Montana etc.

 

[antlerradar]

14 mm dollar ranch is roughly a 700 mother cow outfit. Big enough to make you work 24/7 with a return of maybe 7% before expenses/taxes . It ain't the Dutton ranch

yup. On a good year you might clear 100 or 200 grand, on a bad year you could lose even more. With 400k of debt you had better hope the swather doesn't have the big one.