Turkey DNA initiative started, requesting hunter harvested samples

[kansasdad]

I first saw this on a YouTube video where Dr Mike Chamberlain was asking for folks to help this partnership of researchers to get DNA samples (front part of a turkey's tongue requested) for DNA analysis. He was asking for photos to be sent to him for evaluating the "oddness" of a turkey...melanistic, smoke phase, albino, any oddity that would make it unusual as they intend to start with the out of place birds first. He seems to be interested in determining how "wild" our wild birds really are, and probably looking at hybridization that has occurred with reintroductions.

Here is Dr Chamberlain talking about this new project, starts at 39:20 on the video:

As I understand it:

---shoot your bird and harvest the front part of the tongue, freeze it for preservation
---get good photos of your "odd" bird, send that to him/them and await further instructions
---if they want more info and/or your tissue sample, they will contact you

For those wanting to know what is going on in the world of turkey research, the above video features a couple of field researchers that on doing some pretty cool scieney stuff.

 

[kansasdad]

Partners Establish Groundbreaking New Collaborative: WildturkeyDN...

www.nwtf.org

 

[Gellar]

Meat eater live had the lab from UTEP who is doing the testing on last week or two weeks ago. They also did duck dna and we’re on the regular meat eater podcast. Interesting things they found about waterfowl, I’ll be curious to see about Turks.

 

[howl]

That charlatan can go pound sand.

 

[kansasdad]

That charlatan can go pound sand.

Do tell....
which "charlatan" are you speaking of, and how do you have this opinion, may I ask?

 

[th88]

That charlatan can go pound sand.

Agreed. All I can think of is him someone spinning this into a way to take away more turkey hunting opportunity. Since his dominant gobbler theory has STILL not been proven and numerous studies have counteracted it, he is just trying to find a way to remain relevant. Which included hunting with the The Hunting Public in MARCH in Alabama and shooting THE DOMINANT GOBBLER!!! You can't make this stuff up.

 

[kansasdad]

Agreed. All I can think of is him someone spinning this into a way to take away more turkey hunting opportunity. Since his dominant gobbler theory has STILL not been proven and numerous studies have counteracted it, he is just trying to find a way to remain relevant. Which included hunting with the The Hunting Public in MARCH in Alabama and shooting THE DOMINANT GOBBLER!!! You can't make this stuff up.

How has Dr Chamberlain (presume this is who you reference/are mad at) taken away turkey hunting opportunity?

(Just trying to understand the angst)

 

[N2TRKYS]

How has Dr Chamberlain (presume this is who you reference/are mad at) taken away turkey hunting opportunity?

(Just trying to understand the angst)

Pretty simple, actually. Several States bought in to his dominant gobbler theory without it ever being proven. Thusly, delaying the State’s starting dates(some up to 10 days).

 

[Perlodid]

Pretty simple, actually. Several States bought in to his dominant gobbler theory without it ever being proven. Thusly, delaying the State’s starting dates(some up to 10 days).

Why do you think the "dominant gobbler theory" was the reason that states delayed starting dates? I don't get the fixation on this dominant gobbler thing, it seems like it was based more on long-term population declines than any singular social dynamic.

 

[kansasdad]

The video in post one mentioned some of the DNA results on poult makeup. IIRC 40% of clutches had multiple paternal contributions.

Im pretty sure “dominant gobbler” was not discussed in that video

 

[Bc1992]

The video in post one mentioned some of the DNA results on poult makeup. IIRC 40% of clutches had multiple paternal contributions.

Im pretty sure “dominant gobbler” was not discussed in that video

“Dominant gobbler” isn’t discussed by him much anymore because so many people in the southeast are upset by our seasons being pushed back and the fact that there is no scientific proof moving seasons back have any effect on populations. Dr. Craig Harper in Tennessee led a study that proved that. So here we are opening 10 days later when everything has started to leaf out and it’s warmer for no reason other than the state biologist were hoping that chamberlains theory would hold weight.

 

[kansasdad]

“Dominant gobbler” isn’t discussed by him much anymore because so many people in the southeast are upset by our seasons being pushed back and the fact that there is no scientific proof moving seasons back have any effect on populations. Dr. Craig Harper in Tennessee led a study that proved that. So here we are opening 10 days later when everything has started to leaf out and it’s warmer for no reason other than the state biologist were hoping that chamberlains theory would hold weight.

Thanks for the context

He does address moving opening day later in the THP video. I think in his discussion he stated that this should give hens that are not already bred more time to get jiggy with it, thus having more nesters and hopefully more poults to attempt to run the gantlet Of early turkeyhood predation.

 

[N2TRKYS]

The video in post one mentioned some of the DNA results on poult makeup. IIRC 40% of clutches had multiple paternal contributions.

Im pretty sure “dominant gobbler” was not discussed in that video

I answered your question about Chamberlain. I have zero interest in the video posted.

 

[N2TRKYS]

Why do you think the "dominant gobbler theory" was the reason that states delayed starting dates? I don't get the fixation on this dominant gobbler thing, it seems like it was based more on long-term population declines than any singular social dynamic.

You haven’t paid much attention to Chamberlain, have you? If you had, you would’ve heard him talk about it alot.

 

[Perlodid]

You haven’t paid much attention to Chamberlain, have you? If you had, you would’ve heard him talk about it alot.

I haven't paid much attention to him, that's true. My question was more asking about whether or not the state agencies that pushed season dates back did it because of the dominant gobbler stuff or because of other factors relating to nest success/turkey populations (whether or not it actually is effective, I have no clue). It doesn't seem like that was the main reason states changed the dates to me, and I don't see how Chamberlain would be responsible for any loss in turkey hunting opportunity in this context.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I haven't paid much attention to him, that's true. My question was more asking about whether or not the state agencies that pushed season dates back did it because of the dominant gobbler stuff or because of other factors relating to nest success/turkey populations (whether or not it actually is effective, I have no clue). It doesn't seem like that was the main reason states changed the dates to me, and I don't see how Chamberlain would be responsible for any loss in turkey hunting opportunity in this context.

Nest success, historically, has been around 30%. Some years better, some years worse. The perceived notion that the turkey population is on a downward spiral lead many States to jump on his theory, although unproven at the time and now disproven, to “do something” to help fix this notion.
With all due respect, you sound like you’re not familiar with the theory at all. If you were, then you would understand how it pushed the States to do what they did under that guise.

 

[Perlodid]

Nest success, historically, has been around 30%. Some years better, some years worse. The perceived notion that the turkey population is on a downward spiral lead many States to jump on his theory, although unproven at the time and now disproven, to “do something” to help fix this notion.
With all due respect, you sound like you’re not familiar with the theory at all. If you were, then you would understand how it pushed the States to do what they did under that guise.

The context I was missing

I'm familiar enough with the theory, but I was trying to understand exactly how it was pitched to state agencies. I'm not tapped in to southeastern turkey issues, so I don't know the history. Of course they would want to jump on anything that could help with the decline, I just wasn't aware of how they came to the conclusion that the hypothesis would solve their long-term population trends. Now that I know it was directly proposed to Alabama in the way that it was, I can at least see where you're coming from.

 

[BrentD]

What states? Pushing the dates back may not be a bad idea around here. We used to have snow in first season and no green up (or ticks) until late 3rd season. Now we have no snow and all the other stuff at the beginning of first season. Dang mushroom hunters run us over too.

 

[WildWill]

What states? Pushing the dates back may not be a bad idea around here. We used to have snow in first season and no green up (or ticks) until late 3rd season. Now we have no snow and all the other stuff at the beginning of first season. Dang mushroom hunters run us over too.

Oklahoma pushed our opener back by 10 days in 2021. Never heard anyone mention the "dominant gobbler" theory just that they were hoping more hens would be bred leading to more turkey. It definitely makes things hotter and more buggy but seems to be helping the population. Although personally I believe the lowering of the bag limit to one the same year helped more then pushing the date's back.

 

[kansasdad]

Kansas hasn’t moved opening day but did drop the second spring bird option that used to be available for some hunting zones, and completely did away with fall turkey hunting. Fall hunting used to be 70+ days and up to four tags (any turkey) then shortened to 30ish days, then completely axed a couple of seasons ago.

We also have taken steps to reduce nest predators (raccoons and opossum) by allowing trapping 365


I hope that any personal distaste for Dr Chamberlain would not prevent hunters to not participate in this research project. UTEP, DU, NWTF and the Low Country Game Bird Foundation are joining in with Wild Turkey Lab (Chamberlain) to study turkey DNA. Hopefully to the benefit of the wild turkey population, and turkey population managers.