Truth, or Bullsh*t? Jack O'Connor Edition.

[Ben Long]

Jack O'Connor wrote this more than 50 years ago. Is it still true today?

“Actually, there is little use for minute–of-angle accuracy in a big game rifle. Big game animals are large targets.”

 

[MNElkNut]

He phrased it really poorly. There is and was plenty of use for a MOA gun in big game hunting. It is not like someone would pick a 5MOA gun over a MOA gun! The point he was trying to make is that you don't NEED MOA. I can agree with that, but at some point it does become and issue. 3MOA at 300 yards is 9 inches and that is enough to goof a shot up. You can live with 2 MOA pretty easily in almost all occasions IMO (maybe not for those that are shooting those 600+ yard shots though).

 

[fishing4sanity]

"Aim small, miss small" is probably only from the move 'The Patriot' but a MOA rifle should miss smaller and even be more lethal on a big game target. A rifle can't be too accurate, can it? As the hunter, I on the other hand can have a very capable rifle, but then miss-translate that rifle's accuracy into taking a longer shot than I should. I wouldn't say Jack was full of BS, I'd say have a very accurate rifle, but then still 'hunt' the animal.

 

[belly-deep]

99% of hunters on 99% of shots don't require MOA. Its only the guys who like to shoot 500+ yards who really need it.

I like to have it though.

 

[ida homer]

99% of hunters on 99% of shots don't require MOA. Its only the guys who like to shoot 500+ yards who really need it.

I like to have it though.

+1, always fun to shoot good groups at the range.

 

[shoots-straight]

I hate shooting with groups at the range. Come to think about it I'm not a big fan of shooting anything but my .22 cals. Oh and my bow.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Whose Jack O'Conner? Read an article recently about some guy named Saxtin Poop whe was winging arrows at a sow Griz with cubs in YNP - what a tool.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Bozone IPa

 

[Gr8bawana]

Jack O'Connor wrote this more than 50 years ago. Is it still true today?

“Actually, there is little use for minute–of-angle accuracy in a big game rifle. Big game animals are large targets.”

This is still very true. I only need a rifle capable of hitting game at ranges that I'm comfortable with. To me that is less than 500 yards.
This doesn't apply to those idiots who like to fling bullets at game half a mile or more away.

 

[Southwind]

I agree with him, but it is awful nice having one.

 

[RobertR]

I think it' still holds true today what Jack phrased. The majority of hunters back then never had the optics or even used any on a rifle and if they did they were low magnification. They never had range finders only Kentucky Windage LOL! I remember in the sixties watching my dad shoot his 300 H&H with a 4X unertl scope and shooting at ranges that most rely on a range finder to shoot past 500 yards. MOA was never even mentioned back in those days.
In today's technology we rely to much on technology and not so much on field skills of judging yardage etc.

 

[tony m]

an accurate rifle

Improving your shooting at prone ,kneeling, sitting and offhand matters more than obsessing about anything beyond 1.5 moa.Even a bipod is not practical in our region.Level of fitness is also key.Familiarity of landscape, the game and your smokepole matters to me.Jack's message is a little dated now but valid today.If you don't know who O'conner was, you are in for a treat as you discover his writings...in my opinion

 

[sbhooper]

I enjoy my accurate rifles and have never had a problem hand-loading to get that type of accuracy with most any rifle. However, realistically, moa is not really that important for average field shooting (out to 300 yards or so). Many people can not shoot well enough to take advantage of a group shooter anyway. The one thing that an accurate rifle does do, is to up your confidence level. You know it is not the rifle's fault if you miss.

 

[WyOpitz]

If you have an MOA rifle than you know that when you miss, IT AIN'T THE GUNS FAULT!!

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

I am sure if O'Connor was around today he would probably be shooting an MOA rifle. That being said I doubt he would be obsessed about 1/2 inch groups and shooting long range.

I think the statements above relating to the fact that most hunters cannot shoot well enough in field conditions to get any use out of something more than 1.5MOA is probably the most useful. The beauty of todays rifles is you can buy more than enough accuracy with off the shelf rifles/ammo/optics/mounts for very reasonable prices, that you can probably afford to spend some more time practicing.

 

[mtmiller]

I am sure if O'Connor was around today he would probably be shooting an MOA rifle.

agree....

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

agree....

I was thinking the same thing! Of course he'd have a tricked out custom lightweight sheep rifle. Maybe one of those suped up 7mm setups? Possibly the trendy 6.5's that are so hot right now???

MOA isn't necessary for most of us, but sure is nice to have.

 

[sagebrush]

In his day, very true, but the key phrase in that quote is "little use". Fewer hunters meant greater opportunity back in the 60's. The limitations on equipment made 300 yards a long shot most hunters would not attempt. Places where trophy deer were regularly taken now yield very few deer much less real trophies. We have equipment that makes a 300 yard shot routine for those willing to put in a little time at the range. All the time, effort and expense it takes to put an animal in front of you in our day, would you really want to turn away from a shot at 350 yards, or 400? So in our day, a rifle with MOA accuracy may still only be necessary on the rare occasion, but I'll bet more frequently than in O'Connor's day. We have the benefit of laser range finders, better optics, better ammunition, greater accessibility to accurate rifles, and software to help a shooter get prepared for a "long range" shot opportunity. Why not ethically take advantage of it?

 

[MTpubliclander]

Jack O'Conner was a hunter not a shooter his stories detailed the game and techniques to get close rather than how to better shoot from afar once you can see the quarry despite the thousand yard gap. He had little use for a rifle he could not shoot offhand and feel comfortable with but that is not to say he had no use for a sub-MOA gun at the time, his hunting style did not require it.
Hunting does not require a gun capable of 800 yards, Shooting does.

 

[sbhooper]

Jack O'Conner was a hunter not a shooter his stories detailed the game and techniques to get close rather than how to better shoot from afar once you can see the quarry despite the thousand yard gap. He had little use for a rifle he could not shoot offhand and feel comfortable with but that is not to say he had no use for a sub-MOA gun at the time, his hunting style did not require it.
Hunting does not require a gun capable of 800 yards, Shooting does.

"Hunting" has become a big target shoot to many people now. If they had to get close, the animal would not be killed. The hunting ability is disappearing in lieu of long-range killing.