Buzz, there are lots of good people with great intentions in this world that believe in nothing except themselves, creation, or mankind. The problem is we are all going to face a judgement day. Death rate is 100% and i may have 10, 20, or 30 years left, or I might die today. Everyone chooses to believe in something. I believe in God. Whoever becomes president is a puppet for God to do His work. Every great society has failed, the Egyptians, Israel, Medo-Persians, Greeks, Romans, British, etc. So I don't think who becomes president will change things for the better. Preston Nelson
Trump talks Hunting and PLA with F&S
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Gerald Martin
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perhaps the word flaming was too strong... I was understanding that you were reacting to Pagosa's statement that "today is the day of salvation" to mean judgement happens today if there isn't repentance...
Get back on track or this thread will be locked. For a reminder, the topic at hand is listed below. Worthwhile discussion topic, so keep the tangents and labeling out of it.
Straight Arrow
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Donald Trump's positive statements concerning hunting and public lands are encouraging and have definitely turned my head with respect to his legitimacy as a candidate. I may have missed something, but he appears to be the only one even speaking his mind about hunting at all. His influence could open an era of "hope and change" for sportsmen and public lands in the beltway, particularly partnered up with Congress, as represented by Paul Ryan, Speaker of the House and an avid hunter.
Gerald Martin
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Buzz, if I see someone standing at the edge of a cliff and warn them that ignoring the laws of gravity will have tragic consequences, does that make me judgemental? If they were ignorant of that fact and move away from the cliff, I may have helped save their life. If they choose to ignore me and fall that is the consequences of their choice.
Believe or don't believe, that's up to every single person and the consequences of their respective choices are on their shoulders. Not all judgment is reserved for the future, much of it is experienced in the here and now in the form of the natural consequences of our actions. A nation comprised of individuals who choose to engage in behavior that destroys families and eventually leads to a breakdown in society reaps the consequences of their behavior. That is a form of judgement.
I do take issue with some of the language that Pagosa used and don't agree with it. Calling homosexuals "dikes" and "queers" is clearly intended to convey disgust and is inflammatory in nature and inconsistent with the attitude that Jesus showed to sinners. There is plenty of blame to be placed on the shoulders of "straight" people in regards to sexual misconduct and moral deviency and God does not differentiate between between "straight" or "homosexual" when we sin.
Gerald Martin
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^^^^^^
Sorry Randy, I didn't see this post before I posted.
On the topic at hand, personally I don't think I could vote for Trump, but I'll sure whoop it up and say "Atta boy!" when he supports the right message. I'm hoping some other candidates see the positive buzz he is generating and jump on that train. This topic needs to reach the level of national conversation so that the idea of selling public lands is exposed for the idiocy that it is. I'd like to see every politician on both sides of the aisle support public lands . Then I could breath easier knowing our hunting access is a priority.
grizzly_
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I've been doing a lot of research on the NRA and their relationship to the energy companies and thus to their position, or lack of one, regarding selling public lands. There seems to be a rising chorus of hunters renouncing the NRA due to their public lands positions... a transition that would be unthinkable just a few years ago. (Do some internet searches and you will see the NRA and public lands relationship has been stewing for a decade)
I bring this up on a Trump thread to ask the question, "Are we at a turning point where sportsmen are no longer dependably Republican?"
Will there be a new wing of independents which vote not on a abortion, gun control, gay marriage, or any other of the single-issue topics, but vote on land/wildlife conservation? Having those concerned about protecting wildlife and wild lands becoming a sought-after group of voters would be a powerful position to be in.
Imagine future Republican primary elections becoming a battle of who most strongly wants to keep people on public lands instead of who wants to sell it the fastest. How great would it be if future elections, both local and national, were decided on which candidate was the most supportive of protecting public lands and access?
I know its just wishful thinking, but if hunters quit voting the party line... 'the elected' will have to take notice.
I bring this up on a Trump thread to ask the question, "Are we at a turning point where sportsmen are no longer dependably Republican?"
Will there be a new wing of independents which vote not on a abortion, gun control, gay marriage, or any other of the single-issue topics, but vote on land/wildlife conservation? Having those concerned about protecting wildlife and wild lands becoming a sought-after group of voters would be a powerful position to be in.
Imagine future Republican primary elections becoming a battle of who most strongly wants to keep people on public lands instead of who wants to sell it the fastest. How great would it be if future elections, both local and national, were decided on which candidate was the most supportive of protecting public lands and access?
I know its just wishful thinking, but if hunters quit voting the party line... 'the elected' will have to take notice.
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Straight Arrow
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I too am hoping that constituency grows. With the Malheur Refuge debacle ramping up, it's likely that something will happen during this ongoing campaign media blitz and will gain national attention. It may put the public lands issue, particularly BLM grazing, in the limelight and you can count on Trump addressing the issue strongly in some fashion.
(However, I would vote for the Bear-Buzz bureaucracy to put the bite on the Bundy bunglers burglarizing the BLM buildings near Burns you betcha!)
RobG
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In other words, End Times are near. Repent now and be saved
DRAFTSTUD
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Once again you have to remember this Land Transfer crap is coming from the State Levels that you voted in to bring it to the National stage for all to see. Then a Candidate who hasn't been the typical Candidate states that he does not see the selling your Public Lands and you don't see yourselves voting for him. Makes sense to me..........................John
Schaaf
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Bear looks like he's happy to see you Kurt!
Ben Long
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If you want your own "Bear-Buzz 2016" T-shirt, send a $50 dollar, non-deductible contribution to me at ...
Gerald, my aplogies for using those words to describe homosexuals. If I offended anyone I ask for your forgiveness. It wasn't attended that way and I should have just said fornication, which we can all be guilty of. Sorry to offend others with my beliefs. Preston
airlocksniffer
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We all have differences in many things but the reason I came over to Hunt Talk is we all feel passionate about public lands and will fight for them. Plenty of other nasty forums around. HT is a breath of fresh air.
James Riley
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Correct on the first point: Truth is curious in a world of propaganda and lies.
Horribly wrong on the second point: 6 years on government tit = 1 in Job Corps (G.E.D./Welding), 3 in the Marine Corps (Recon Team Leader), 1 as Contract City Criminal Prosecutor, 1 as Contract County Public Defender, 1 as City Environmental Enforcement.
37 years in the private sector (not even a penny in government contract money) and still going.
BigHornRam
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Thank you Buzz for stating what I have believed for years. Most of the people I know who claim to be a Christian of one kind or another only follow or obey their religion when they are around other religious people.
For the most part religion = hypocracy.
Another thread that has lost its value and strayed far beyond what the original topic was pointed at.
I am locking this thread, but before I do, I want to say that your comment is pretty narrow and paints with a very broad brush, even if that is what your life experiences have led you to conclude. I have spent my life around people who are very religious, either publicly or privately. I have found them to be like the rest of society; mostly people of character, with the occasional bad nut among them. If your life experiences have led you to conclude otherwise, that is unfortunate, as I see many religious institutions that bring great value to our society, even if I am not an observant member of one of those groups.
With that, this thread is locked. I don't care if you are Christian, Hindu, Muslim, atheist, agnostic, or Norse Paganist. All I care about is if that individual is a good person who tries to take care of their own affairs, they raise a good family, they are a good community member, and they don't judge other good people because of where that person resides on the spectrum of religious views.
And I expect that reasonable behavior to be shown in interactions of all members on this forum.
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