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Throwing the Little Ones Back

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ELKCHSR

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Throwing the Little Ones Back

Throwing the little fish back, a common practice, causes fish to shrink over time since there is selection against the survival of larger fish:

Survival of the Smallest, Ecology, Scientific American: Any commercial fisher or weekend angler knows to “throw the little ones back.” The idea is to give small fish time to grow up... But that strategy may actually be harming fish stocks. Ongoing experiments on captive fish reveal that harvesting only the largest individuals can actually force a species to evolve undesirable characteristics that diminish an overfished stock’s ability to recover, says David O. Conover, director of the Marine Sciences Research Center at Stony Brook University. The results may explain why many of the world’s most depleted stocks do not rebound as quickly as expected.

The genetic effects appeared in Atlantic silversides, a small, usually fast growing fish. Conover brought a batch of wild silversides to his laboratory in 1998. He and his students then reared six generations, each time removing the largest 90 percent from one group, the smallest 90 percent from another group, and a random 90 percent from a third.

By 2002 it was plain to see that killing off the largest fish had a dramatic effect. Individuals in that group were only about 70 percent the average weight of their randomly harvested counterparts... Because the compared fish were the same age, the scientists could attribute the shrinkage to selection of genes for slower growth.

Even more alarming, the slower growth came with a suite of deficiencies. Detailed examinations of the fifth- and sixth-generation fish ... revealed that members of the large-harvested group were less willing to forage for food and less able to outwit predators. They also produced smaller and fewer eggs, and a lesser portion of those eggs grew into healthy offspring. ... Historical records confirm that cod and other popular food fishes were bigger in the past...

Whether weaker fish are making it to the dinner table now is not at all clear, Conover admits. But letting some big fish go along with the little ones is probably a smart strategy nonetheless. Meanwhile Conover’s team has halted all size-selective harvesting and is waiting to see whether subsequent generations will recuperate—and how long it takes to do so.
 
I thought it has been fairly common knowledge for the last 20 years or so that keeping the big fish and throwing all the little ones back was bad practice? I guess the info did not get out to everyone.
 
Probably a better practice to throw back little ones than man handle, roll in dirt, and grab the gill plates of a big one though. :rolleyes: Seriously a 90% removal rate is pretty darn high in my opinion. I doubt in many of the streams I fish that 90% of any population is being removed in a year.
 
Probably a better practice to throw back little ones than man handle, roll in dirt, and grab the gill plates of a big one though.

You mean like this???

steelhead2.JPG

:rolleyes:

But if you were referring to me Tone...

So that every one knows, here’s the pictures your referring to, show me and explain to every one else what your talking about, or are you just parroting shit you've taken second hand from others with out finding the truth for yourself. :)

100_0705Small_original.jpg

100_0703Small_original.jpg


The same info I gave to the other individuals who sit on their ass's spouting unsubstantiated crap can be had and passed on by you if you think there’s a case for "wrongful acts" then it's up to you to act on it, non of the other chicken shits would... :eek:

Call the game department, it's 1-800-TIP-MONT, or 1-800-847-6668 if you can't read the letters on the buttons...

Or just e-mail them the pics...

Heres the address so you can find them easier...

Simple enough, just copy and past them into an e-mail and they will pop up right there for them to pop right open immediatly for all the game department to see....

If they come to the house as you seem to think they will, I have more pictures I will more than gladly share with them...

http://www.hunttalk.com/forums/gall...ll_original.jpg

http://www.hunttalk.com/forums/gall...ll_original.jpg

Heres the address you can send them to...

http://fwp.state.mt.us/default.html

Montana FWP Headquarters
Front Desk (406) 444-2535
Directors Office (406) 444-3186

Enforcement
General Questions (406) 444-2452
Report Poaching, Vandalism (800) 847-6668

Wildlife Division
General Questions (406) 444-2612
Freezeout (406) 467-2646
Watchable Wildlife (406) 444-2612

Heres all the wardens numbers for region 2 just incase one of your buddies are out of the office...

Althaus, Terry L. FWP Warden 2 542-5500
Burns, Danny J. FWP Warden 2 542-5500
Campbell, Jeffrey M. FWP Warden 2 542-5500
Curtin, Daniel J. FWP Warden Sergeant 2 542-5509
Darrah, Jeffrey S. FWP Warden Captain 2 542-5512
Douglas, John D. FWP Warden 2 542-5500
Fegely, Michael J. FWP Warden 2 542-5500
Jaquith, Joseph A. FWP Warden Sergeant 2 542-5510
Johnson, Douglas E. FWP Warden 2 542-5500
Koppen, William J. FWP Warden 2 677-3628
Schott, Derek B. FWP Warden 2 542-5522
Zarling, Rory J. Conservation Specialist 2 542-5537

Heres the ones for the fisheries...

Berg, Rodney K. Fisheries Biologist 2 251-5390
Clancy, Christopher G. Fisheries Biologist 2 363-7169
Clark, Robert Fisheries Technician 2 542-5546
Kirsch, George Fish Hatchery Manager 2 726-0029
Knotek, William Fisheries Biologist 2 542-5506
Lammerding, Jeff A. Fish Culturist 2 726-3344
Pierce, Ronald W. Fisheries Biologist 2 542-5532
Rashap, Raven A. Fisheries Technician 2 542-5548
Saffel, Patrick Regional Fisheries Mgr 2 542-5507
Schmetterling, David A. Fisheries Biologist 2 542-5514
Snyder, Ronald A. Fish Culturist 2 726-3344
Souther, Angela Fish Culturist 2 563-2531
Suek, Paul G. Fish Culturist 2 563-2531
Sweeney, Mark Fish Hatchery Manager 2 563-2531

Make sure you tell them it was the first lake at twin lakes at the inlet, that way they know the exact spot and that I was using worms on a number 10 hook.

I can't help you any more with out doing it myself, and that ain't going to happen...
 
I think slot size is the best practice. Only very large and small fish taken. The middle size fish are the best breeders and should be returned.
 
Cheese,
Are you somehow comparing Buzz keeping a hatchery fish to you squeezing an endangered/threatened species by the gill plates, rolling it in the dirt, and removing it from the water after catching it with a worm??? You are an idiot.

As for your challenge, why not be a man and turn yourself in? Why do you need somebody else to hold you accountable, have you no morals or ethics that require you to turn yourself in?
 
Cheese,

You really are out of touch with reality.

You mis-handled a threatened species, you rolled them in the dirt, grabbed them by the gill-plates, squeezed them, and held them out of the water.

The top fish still has the hook in it and is likely hooked deep, as you were using a tiny hook.

You fish with worms on top of all that.

Plus, you look like a 'tard.

The fish I caught, which is a steelhead, was brought to bag legally, caught with a barbless hook, and promptly bonked on the head and put on ice. Its a hatchery fish as well, not an endangered species, and was legally punched on my NR Idaho Steelhead fishing permit.

Big difference.
 
Cheese, I think Jose and Buzz said things as well or better than I could have with pretty much the exact same statements I would have made. There isn't mush second hand in your pictures, the proof is right there for all to see.

Your complete failure to grasp simple topics is almost disturbing. Do you even believe the environmental topics that you post here?
 
As for your challenge, why not be a man and turn yourself in? Why do you need somebody else to hold you accountable, have you no morals or ethics that require you to turn yourself in?

LOL... guner/sybil... you are the poster child of no morals and ethics and you want others to be??? :D:D:D

I will answer this guner/sybil, I don’t need to turn myself in. There’s nothing to be guilty of. If there was, I am very certain, you and the rest of this rabid pack of all talk, and no action, idiots would have done it a long time ago. Especially since the “perceived” evidence is right there, your just to much of a coward to do any thing, so, as I have called you before, White Striped Yellow Belly in your case fits.

Just being a lawyer puts you in that category by default, and again I will state, now to all three of you since you all seem to have the need for empty excuses... :rolleyes: tsk... tsk...

Your silly little attacks show that my point was well made and our poor little Butz the Putz has been shown the fool as it is very easy with a picture to show the difference, and the proof...

Where’s yours little boys, I’m sure there are plenty of people reading this thread wondering the same thing???

Or is this meaningless tantrum you’re displaying all you have, and beating your chests in an empty gesture have some sort of deeper meaning???

Enlighten us any one of you, if you have any answers besides simpleton brow beating.

Your all pathetic, and now you've stepped into the muck Tone and showing how narrow minded you can also be, what a fool... :)

I know what it is, you want a nick name like Butz the putz and guner/sybil, I’ll think up some thing for you that is fitting, since it seems that’s what your after... ;) I don’t see any other point in your posts... :D

Tone, pull your head out of butz the putz ass, and explain to all those on this board why you feel the need to step up to the plate and show your stupidity with these other to boys??? Is guner/sybils little tendril making your ass hurt and you need some one to shit on???

I see nothing of substance here from you, so I’m guessing you’re just a young pup.

If you want to make a name for yourself on my dime youngster, you better step up to the plate better than you have, don’t be a parrot, and show some balls by being a little more original, or pick your own target to be a self righteous slug to, you little boner.

That’s it, the little boner... :D, I’ve just figured out a sweet little nick name for you so you don’t feel left out... Hmmm. It even has a ring to it to fit your status here... :D
 
Cheese,

You're ridiculous.

You mishandled a threatened species and likely harmed or killed them.

You didnt practice proper catch-and-release. The lack of regard you showed for a federally protect fish species shows a couple things.

1. You have no respect for wildlife, in particular threatened wildlife.

2. You dont care about other sportsmen that want to see bull trout flourish for future generations.

3. You have no consideration for fishermen that care about the image that they portray while in the field. Idiotic stunts like the one you posted pictures of will lead to waters being closed, fishermen being limited more, etc. etc. etc.

All these things show your over-all lack of regard for anyone or anything but yourself. You portray a negative image of hunters/fishermen and outdoorsmen in general. You're a disgrace to anyone that buys a hunting or fishing license.

People like you dont deserve the privilege you show no regard for.

Grow up and start acting like a responsible outdoorsman instead of a complete idiot.
 
BUZZ, where was that fish hooked? Had somebody snagged it behind the head at some point?

ELKCHSR, when did you catch that spent spawner? I heard at the BigHorn Show in Spokane last weekend that there are still areas/waters in MT where you can keep bullys. Is that true?

That kind of research must be why we went from 13" or bigger on our cuthroat size limits to under 8" or over 16".
 
Ten beers,

Caught in the roof of the mouth on a 1/16th ounce orange jig (barbless hook) that I hand tied myself....8 pound test line as well...it weighed 20.5 pounds on a meat scale and was 40.5 inches. The largest hatchery steelhead I've caught.

If you're implying that the steelhead was snagged, that tells me a couple things.

1. You dont understand the tinsel strength of 8 pound test.

2. You dont understand just how difficult it would be land a foul-hooked fish of that size is the main stem clearwater on 8 pound test.

3. You dont realize that the fish in the picture was caught on a jig and bobber. I've never seen anyone foul-hook a steelhead on that set-up.

4. You're making unfounded accusations again and grasping at straws.

5. You're as clueless as elkcheese.
 
Take a deep breath oh thin skinned one.

BuzzH said:
Ten beers,

Caught in the roof of the mouth on a 1/16th ounce orange jig (barbless hook) that I hand tied myself....8 pound test line as well...it weighed 20.5 pounds on a meat scale and was 40.5 inches. The largest hatchery steelhead I've caught.
I thought it was a nice fish
If you're implying that the steelhead was snagged, that tells me a couple things.
That you would snap back at a question like that also tells me a couple of things..., and they are all linked to Freudian Theory.
1. You dont understand the tinsel strength of 8 pound test.
I see no tackle evident to support you claim one way or the other.
2. You dont understand just how difficult it would be land a foul-hooked fish of that size is the main stem clearwater on 8 pound test.
I've been there to see many foul hooked fish hauled in. I've even watched a guy get hauled into the river by a big fouled hooked fish when it ran into the current. 8# test, ok, if you say so.
3. You dont realize that the fish in the picture was caught on a jig and bobber. I've never seen anyone foul-hook a steelhead on that set-up.
I have, on the Clearwater too.
4. You're making unfounded accusations again and grasping at straws.
Whatever, I was looking at the dark spot/hole(?) between the head and the dorsal.
5. You're as clueless as elkcheese.
 
Oh, so you snagged your stealhead... That doesn't sound very ethical... :rolleyes:

And your the one who spouts all sorts of crap on this board about being able to walk on water...

I didn't think you were supposed to be snagging them, and not using natural bait to boot, that's not much different than chasing animals around the mountains on your 4 wheeler, shooting them off the road...

He's making unfounded accusations??? You've got to be kidding, your the king of unfounded accusations, you need to get a grip on reality Butz the Putz, your slipping even deeper into your own little world.

I suppose next you'll be telling us you road hunt and shoot other peoples animals for them... Unfounded???? Earth to Butz the Putz.... Your youthful ignorance is showing thru the little box you live in... :)

I do remember just recently you wanted to shoot other sportsmen in the face with a shot gun, that sounds real ethical... tsk, tsk, tsk...

I should also add, what does it matter where the fish originally came from, the example of what to do in handling and what not to do is in the photo's above (every one knows a picture is worth a thousand words) and your a shining example of what not to do... ;)

I suppose you'll end up pulling the same stunt as guner/sybil and pull your picture pretty quick because of shame for your own actions. :D

Your ships sinking buddy... :D:D:D
 
ELKCHSR said:
I didn't think you were supposed to be snagging them, and not using natural bait to boot, that's not much different than chasing animals around the mountains on your 4 wheeler, shooting them off the road...
Cheese,
YOu are completely clueless on Steelhead fishing, aren't you? Do you have any clue what the hook/lure/bait regulations are on Steelhead in IDaho? If not, then shut your piehole and quite making yourself look like the idiot you are.
 
Elkcheese,

Yes, I snagged that steelhead in the roof of the mouth.

As to the rest of your post...well...it speaks volumes about your lack of ethics.

My picture shows exactly what you should do with a fish you intend to keep. You reduce it to possession, punch your steelhead card, bonk it on the head, and put it on ice. Take a couple nice pictures and go catch another one.

Very different from your pictures which are a classic example of how not to handle threatened species, or even fish that are to be released.

Ten Beers, theres no "hole" between the dorsal and the head.
 
Bob Lablah... I see your still asking questions, kind of stupid for you wouldn't you think??? ;) :D:D:D

If not, then shut your piehole and quite making yourself look like the idiot you are.

You know what there guner/sybil.... :) I was thinking the same of you... :D:D:D

LMAO Butz the Putz...

You're to easy, any one can take a little bit and run with it, as you to ding-a-lings are continually doing... Difference is, I will do the research to find if it's really true, rather than "assume" some thing and run with it, this looks far more foolish...

So, now by rewording a little and jumping to major conclussions, this also proves to every one that you're a liar and also a thief... Isn't this fun... ;)
 
Elkcheese,

This thread is another classic example of one you should stay out of. You dont know the regulations regarding steelhead fishing in Idaho. You wouldnt have a clue about how to catch them...and more importantly you havent spent 28 years fishing the rivers of Idaho.

Dont post on subjects you dont understand.
 
:) LOL... Butz the Putz, if I don't know the rules, then turn me in you chicken shit loser... :)
 
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