This will affect my hunting

In my view, the big question for fall hunts will be the seasonality of this virus and what we learn between now and September. If we get a second wave in the fall, and we have clear data that shows SD worked in the spring, I can't imagine States not putting the restrictions back in place. No rural communities are going to want to have a whole bunch of disease vectors hitting their little towns. I think its a real gamble on what could happen in the fall, I think the September hunts will mostly be ok, but getting into Nov/Dec??? I also think the more rural areas, like remote communities in AK, will be very sensitive to any potential 2nd wave given their lack of infrastructure.

So, if I were one of the youtube/hunting draw consultant/analyze everything to death tv personalities, my advice would be:
1. Hedge your hunts this fall by leaning towards early season hunts v late season
2. look at how states have responded to the current situation as a clue to how they might respond this fall
3. if its still an option, maybe holdout on your remote AK or out of country hunts where air travel restrictions could really bite you (or get savvy on trip insurance!).
 
Big Fin said:
I had hoped it wouldn't come to this. So much for spring bears in SE Alaska this year. Wonder what they will do with those of us who have tags. First world problems, I know. But, possibly a sign of things to come. (Not April Fools)


View attachment 134209
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It's disappointing and a big loss of reveune for the state but it's totally understandable. A lot of outfitters in Alaska operate out of very small communities and often times indigenous communities if one person gets sick the whole village is going to get sick. Also much of Alaska is permafrost and I know what you're thinking "what does that have to do with anything" if somebody dies from Wuhan Virus or some other flu and they're buried in the permafrost that disease is freezing with them. Not only that but rural Alaskan communities don't have funeral homes so it's up to the people of the village to make a casket and mine the permafrost to bury a body in turn infecting everyone. There's an interesting article about Svalbard Norway about the Spanish flu of 1918. People in Svalbard died from the flu and we're buried in the village and the disease to this day is frozen in the permafrost. It's illegal to bury anyone in Svalbard and dying residents are flown back to the mainland. The same thing could happen in rural Alaska someone dies and is buried in the permafrost the next time someone gets buried the disease could come back. It's going to be a big loss of non resident revune which will disproportionately affect small villages but it's better than risking everyone in the village getting infected.
 
Elk Bugler said:
It's disappointing and a big loss of reveune for the state but it's totally understandable. A lot of outfitters in Alaska operate out of very small communities and often times indigenous communities if one person gets sick the whole village is going to get sick. Also much of Alaska is permafrost and I know what you're thinking "what does that have to do with anything" if somebody dies from Wuhan Virus or some other flu and they're buried in the permafrost that disease is freezing with them. Not only that but rural Alaskan communities don't have funeral homes so it's up to the people of the village to make a casket and mine the permafrost to bury a body in turn infecting everyone. There's an interesting article about Svalbard Norway about the Spanish flu of 1918. People in Svalbard died from the flu and we're buried in the village and the disease to this day is frozen in the permafrost. It's illegal to bury anyone in Svalbard and dying residents are flown back to the mainland. The same thing could happen in rural Alaska someone dies and is buried in the permafrost the next time someone gets buried the disease could come back. It's going to be a big loss of non resident revune which will disproportionately affect small villages but it's better than risking everyone in the village getting infected.
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Cremation?
 
wllm1313 said:
Cremation?
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Most indigenous Alaskan communities are still very traditional and practice burial rituals that they have for thousands of years. It's not like In most of America when a person dies they're cremated and there's no service. Some tribes have massive events to honor the dead after they are buried and some tribes have to shoot a moose to prepare for the village feast (they are even allowed to shoot a moose out of season and they should be allowed to)after a loved one passes away. Rural Alaskans have been living this way for thousands of years and they shouldn't have to change for non resident bear season. I'm not suggesting that you're saying they should change I totally get where you're coming from. Most rural Alaskan communities are majority native American or mixed white and native and still very traditional.
 
Elk Bugler said:
Most indigenous Alaskan communities are still very traditional and practice burial rituals that they have for thousands of years. It's not like In most of America when a person dies they're cremated and there's no service. Some tribes have massive events to honor the dead after they are buried and some tribes have to shoot a moose to prepare for the village feast (they are even allowed to shoot a moose out of season and they should be allowed to)after a loved one passes away. Rural Alaskans have been living this way for thousands of years and they shouldn't have to change for non resident bear season. I'm not suggesting that you're saying they should change I totally get where you're coming from. Most rural Alaskan communities are majority native American or mixed white and native and still very traditional.
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More referring to Svalbard... etc.

I'm in no mood to open the indigenous communities can of worms.
 
Big Fin said:
If the low point of my year is losing the opportunity to hunt this tag, the license and application cost, I will consider I got though 2020 in flying colors. Back to one of my earlier posts; I agree with this decision. Over eight trips to do these hunts, I have got to meet a lot of cool people in the area, some I have met up with when they have traveled to Montana. I consider them friends at this point. I would hate to see their lives in these small rural communities upended. If this can lower the risk of that happening, I'm on board with that.

If I am out $190 for me and my niece, such is life. I'm already asking her where we might go as a replacement to this. When looking at that possible lost cost and compare it to what I would spend on this trip or my hunting in general, most would advise I not be a traveling hunter if such is enough to hurt my long-term financial stability.

It would be cool if a draw tag such as this could be used in some future period, but I'm not counting on it or worrying about it.
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I thought I might share this as of current. I think this could be good news for all of us. It is a first step in the direction of opening things back up. I know that this is still a restriction, but I think with time and patience things will get back to normal shortly.
Screenshot_20200409-122130.png
 
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not sure where to drop this, seems like the relevant place for now...

https://www.cpr.org/2020/04/09/texa...emporary-nonresident-ban-is-unconstitutional/

Texas Attorney General Says Gunnison County’s Temporary Nonresident Ban Is Unconstitutional
“It discriminates against nonresident homeowners by entirely prohibiting their ingress to the county and enjoyment of their real and personal property in the county. Resident homeowners, on the other hand, are under no such prohibition,”

what about the other counties? i guess it's only unconstitutional if it has a high percentage of texas resident's second homes?

i guess god forbid a pandemic prohibits you from enjoying your 2nd or 3rd "real and personal property" - get a friggin grip... sorry maybe too much digression for this thread
 
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TOGIEGOAT said:
not sure where to drop this, seems like the relevant place for now...

https://www.cpr.org/2020/04/09/texa...emporary-nonresident-ban-is-unconstitutional/

Texas Attorney General Says Gunnison County’s Temporary Nonresident Ban Is Unconstitutional
“It discriminates against nonresident homeowners by entirely prohibiting their ingress to the county and enjoyment of their real and personal property in the county. Resident homeowners, on the other hand, are under no such prohibition,”

what about the other counties? i guess it's only unconstitutional if it has a high percentage of texas resident's second homes?

i guess god forbid a pandemic prohibits you from enjoying your 2nd or 3rd "real and personal property" - get a friggin grip... sorry maybe too much digression for this thread
Click to expand...

There are constitutional ways of handling the situation, I'm disappointed the Gunnison sherif decided to go full cowboy on this one. I 100% support Gunnison being challenged in court, the county does not have the authority to shut down public lands to all but locals, it doesn't have the authority to deprive people of their property.

I think a example of the correct way to respond to Covid was Yuma asking CPW to shut down the turkey season. CPW is agency managing that resource.

Part of me wonders if Gunnison is just bluffing, if they are able to cub 75% of non-local visits to the county it's a victory to them. They probably realize they don't have a leg to stand on in court, which makes me wonder if they have any intention of enforcing this... I will be interested to see if anyone actually gets a ticket.
 
Looking forward to the 2020 season here in my HOME state! Sorry @8andcounting no mule deer for you this year ;), would almost bet a case of Old Mils on it.
 
wllm1313 said:
There are constitutional ways of handling the situation, I'm disappointed the Gunnison sherif decided to go full cowboy on this one. I 100% support Gunnison being challenged in court, the county does not have the authority to shut down public lands to all but locals, it doesn't have the authority to deprive people of their property.

I think a example of the correct way to respond to Covid was Yuma asking CPW to shut down the turkey season. CPW is agency managing that resource.

Part of me wonders if Gunnison is just bluffing, if they are able to cub 75% of non-local visits to the county it's a victory to them. They probably realize they don't have a leg to stand on in court, which makes me wonder if they have any intention of enforcing this... I will be interested to see if anyone actually gets a ticket.
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i'm not an attorney

but i just don't see how it's warranted. i feel it would be less likely for there to be a suit if peoples 2nd and 3rd homes weren't part of the equation.

did gunnison county declare a state of emergency? i can't remember.

i would think it would be unconstitutional for polis to unilaterally shut down restaurants and bars (talk about irreparable harm)... except when he declares a valid state of emergency there's a degree of certain powers he gains that normally would not fly if exercised

my family has a place in wyoming, i'd be pissed if they closed access to the county it's in. already sucks i'd have to quarantine first by going up there. would i sue the state? would i hope phil weiser sues them on my behalf? no, not at all. i'm a resident of colorado, there's a pandemic. i'll sit in my pitiful little rented condo and get by just fine. i wouldn't be materially and irreparably injured by that, at all

during a state of emergency it seems more akin to a child kicking and screaming because he can't have dessert. why? cause dad said so, eat your vegetables next time and do as your told

sorry all maybe not right for this thread, maybe we'll take to pm's
 
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TOGIEGOAT said:
i'm not an attorney

but i just don't see how it's warranted. i feel it would be less likely for there to be a suit if peoples 2nd and 3rd homes weren't part of the equation.

did gunnison county declare a state of emergency? i can't remember.

i would think it would be unconstitutional for polis to unilaterally shut down restaurants and bars (talk about irreparable harm)... except when he declares a valid state of emergency there's a degree of certain powers he gains that normally would not fly if exercised

my family has a place in Wyoming, i'd be pissed if they closed access to the county it's in. already sucks i'd have to quarantine first by going up there. would i sue the state? would i hope phil weiser sues them on my behalf? no, not at all. i'm a resident of Colorado, there's a pandemic. i'll sit in my pitiful little rented condo and get by just fine. i wouldn't be materially and irreparably injured by that, at all

during a state of emergency it seems more akin to a child kicking and screaming because he can't have dessert. why? cause dad said so, eat your vegetables next time and do as your told

sorry all, maybe we'll take to pm's
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My response was to the methods being used not the effect. Rural communities have limited resources and are especially vulnerable. These communities need to be protected, which is why I support what Yuma county did, they were worried about an influx of people into their community for turkey season and therefore asked the state agency with authority to shut down the season to shut down the season.

Colorado has a state of emergency in place if Gunnison or any other county wants to restrict travel they should petition Polis, the sheriff's office should not be making those decisions. Although if it's interstate travel eg travel Texas that should come from the feds. I don't believe the USFS or BLM has authority to shut down public land to all by a protected class of citizen? Equal protection clause?? So you could shut down all public land access, but you couldn't shut it down to all but locals. Which is why I think they have simply closed facilities. The state or local government certainly doesn't have authority, supremacy clause. @VikingsGuy ( 🤷‍♂️ am I'm correct?)

Think about legal routine closures and access restrictions
Wyoming guide law- the state isn't restricting access to public lands, it's just saying the permit they issue to harvest wildlife is only valid under certain conditions in certain areas. You can still hike in the wilderness, they don't have authority there, they only have hunting authority.

When there is a massive wildfire, the USFS shuts down access to everyone. Not just a certain group of people.

I'm advocating working within our current legal framework. Follow the law.
 
wllm1313 said:
My response was to the methods being used not the effect. Rural communities have limited resources and are especially vulnerable. These communities need to be protected, which is why I support what Yuma county did, they were worried about an influx of people into their community for turkey season and therefore asked the state agency with authority to shut down the season to shut down the season.

Colorado has a state of emergency in place if Gunnison or any other county wants to restrict travel they should petition Polis, the sheriff's office should not be making those decisions. Although if it's interstate travel eg travel Texas that should come from the feds. I don't believe the USFS or BLM has authority to shut down public land to all by a protected class of citizen? Equal protection clause?? So you could shut down all public land access, but you couldn't shut it down to all but locals. Which is why I think they have simply closed facilities. The state or local government certainly doesn't have authority, supremacy clause. @VikingsGuy ( 🤷‍♂️ am I'm correct?)

Think about legal routine closures and access restrictions
Wyoming guide law- the state isn't restricting access to public lands, it's just saying the permit they issue to harvest wildlife is only valid under certain conditions in certain areas. You can still hike in the wilderness, they don't have authority there, they only have hunting authority.

When there is a massive wildfire, the USFS shuts down access to everyone. Not just a certain group of people.

I'm advocating working within our current legal framework. Follow the law.
Click to expand...

i think i fully agree with your reasoning here

but it's a global pandemic, and i think if global pandemic means that if you're not allowed to go hang out in your vacation home, or travel to the next state and hike or hunt, by whomever, you should be able to buck up and sit tight for a while.

this coming from someone who has admittedly struggled with whether or not this is worth the harm we're causing by combating it and perhaps my only issue is that i'm an entrenched colorado native that can't look past my blinding bias against vacationing and imported texans

but still, someone else said it on here, can't remember who, livelihoods are far less important than lives. i feel negative levels of sympathy for a texas (or insert state here) resident with a vacation home in gunnison county, who honestly probably wasn't even planning to come visit their vacation home in gunnison county during all of this, now crying foul because they can't
 
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One consideration if fall hunting occurs is what if a hunter gets COVID-19 in the backcountry?
The first few days of infection could have no symptoms, then in the backcountry sickness starts.
It would be pretty tough to hike back out, and for some the disease may eventually require hospitalization....

Hopefully, by then there will be a widespread test to determine if a person has been exposed to COVID-19.
 
AlaskaHunter said:
One consideration if fall hunting occurs is what if a hunter gets COVID-19 in the backcountry?
It would be pretty tough to hike back out, and for some the disease may eventually require hospitalization....

Hopefully, by then there will be a widespread test to determine if a person has been exposed to COVID-19.
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Struggling with this same issue at work since we're in the woods a ton. If ever there were those that needed an extra nudge to purchase an inReach...this may be it.
 
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