This just in...Feds/wolves/courts

[FI460]

The far left doesn't discuss ungulate populations. That's so far from their radar.

 

[BuzzH]

That’s not the point, the far left aren’t satisfied with their present position and will continue to interfere until the hunter becomes extinct.

The point you're missing is that the "far left" are also entitled to an opinion on wildlife...you don't have the market corned on wildlife decision making, and frankly, in your case, that is a very good thing.

Now post another picture of a dead porcupine or milk cow you shot...that's always a great message for hunting.

 

[RobertD]

The far left doesn't discuss ungulate populations. That's so far from their radar.

Right. And I think the theory of "they want predators to make hunting obsolete" is giving them too much credit, along with lumping all of "them" into the "far left" is a misjudgment.

I've found "their" view is more based on a blend of progressive utopianism and post-colonial guilt. It's a blend of wanting to right old wrongs and an misguided assumption that if we can just put things on a certain path, the stars will align and nature will be whole again.

I would also bet a majority of people who don't want wolves or GBs hunted could give a shit less when someone shoots a deer or elk.

 

[Shangobango]

Black bears in Louisiana, the management plan says no hunting for 7 years, I believe. I didn’t even know they were delisted till today when I looked it up. I’m sure they will be managed with hunting at some point. Seems like that method tamped down opposition.

There is opposition. It is not as loud are as noticed as with the wolf and grizzly bear but I promise you that the second that we move forward with a hunting season the lawsuits will be forthcoming.

Just thought I would add a local perspective for this one species that you are using as an example of what the ESA should be.

We aren't out of the woods on the Louisiana Black Bear yet.

 

[RobertD]

There is opposition. It is not as loud are as noticed as with the wolf and grizzly bear but I promise you that the second that we move forward with a hunting season the lawsuits will be forthcoming.

Just thought I would add a local perspective for this one species that you are using as an example of what the ESA should be.

We aren't out of the woods on the Louisiana Black Bear yet.

Just like in Florida (you know, the far left enclave of Florida), where black bear are *not* hurting but absolutely thriving... they so much as make a peep about opening up a hunting season and the opposition materializes instantly.

 

[shrapnel]

The point you're missing is that the "far left" are also entitled to an opinion on wildlife...you don't have the market corned on wildlife decision making, and frankly, in your case, that is a very good thing.

Now post another picture of a dead porcupine or milk cow you shot...that's always a great message for hunting.

The discussion is about wolves, keep your petty comments to yourself.

You don’t have the corner on all things wildlife.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

The point you're missing is that the "far left" are also entitled to an opinion on wildlife...you don't have the market corned on wildlife decision making, and frankly, in your case, that is a very good thing.

Now post another picture of a dead porcupine or milk cow you shot...that's always a great message for hunting.

I agree, people are entitled to their opinion. I think the point you are unwilling to concede is that there are well-funded entities, generally from the “far left” of the political spectrum, that would love to see an end to recreational hunting. We see it every week coming out of CA, WA, CO, etc. They have been somewhat unsuccessful at this point but they are not stopping anytime soon. They also support the unfettered introduction and expansion of apex predators, with little to no consideration for ungulate populations.

And yes, hunters do many things that hurts our cause. Sometimes we can be our own worst enemy. It could be viewed as just as damaging as the anti-hunting activists at times.

 

[BuzzH]

The discussion is about wolves, keep your petty comments to yourself.

You don’t have the corner on all things wildlife.

Right, unlike you I never claimed to have the market cornered on wildlife and believe that ALL citizens by law, regulation, and birthright have a say in all things wildlife. I also make choices that reflect that others, whom outnumber me 10-1, will be driving decisions that impact all hunters and wildlife. You should understand the importance of being outnumbered by the study of your hero Custer...

Something you should probably give some thought to rather than worrying about trying to show us how bad-ass you are at killing gophers.

 

[BuzzH]

I agree, people are entitled to their opinion. I think the point you are unwilling to concede is that there are well-funded entities, generally from the “far left” of the political spectrum, that would love to see an end to recreational hunting. We see it every week coming out of CA, WA, CO, etc. They have been somewhat unsuccessful at this point but they are not stopping anytime soon. They also support the unfettered introduction and expansion of apex predators, with little to no consideration for ungulate populations.

And yes, hunters do many things that hurts our cause. Sometimes we can be our own worst enemy. It could be viewed as just as damaging as the anti-hunting activists at times.

Agreed, but keep in mind, they're entitled to a lot more than an opinion...they're entitled to take actions that can end hunting.

 

[RoughCountry]

SSS !!

 

[JLS]

Agreed, but keep in mind, they're entitled to a lot more than an opinion...they're entitled to take actions that can end hunting.

This is a very uncomfortable reality.

 

[Europe]

We are now to the point that someone like me, a person who is deeply committed to the conservation of wild places and wild things, would never support a reintroduction of another species under the current legal framework that exists. This litigation is to the long-term detriment to critical conservation opportunities. I would say I am more patient than your average Montanan in terms of my willingness to "get it right." But, this process of perpetual litigation and disregard of the huge compromises and changes made by locals has lost me as a supporter.

And I understand. The Mexican Wolf in Az is currently protected and those who make the decision on this matter consists of:

One State agency, One Indian agency, One New Mexico state agency, and four Federal Agencies. They can barely agree on when to break for lunch

And "self-serving" more often than not enters into all of this. With the politicians, they are trying to do what those who elected them want, and of course, they want to be reelected.

Self-serving can also be a bit more personal. The ranchers who were running higher numbers of cattle than they were suppose to be running in the Kabab, which reduced foliage for the deer, had no problem killing all the wolves and lions on the Kabab, to save the deer.

Agreed, but keep in mind, they're entitled to a lot more than an opinion...they're entitled to take actions that can end hunting.

This is a very uncomfortable reality.

i.e. Grizzly in B.C. Canada. They were not endangered, they had been hunted for years and the numbers hunted were not outpacing the births, but in 2017 the hunting of those bears -stopped, and those same people or groups of people are currently attempting to implement no Grizzly hunting in The Yukon. Panda Bear would no more about this than I however.

 

[mtmuley]

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=503 Found this. mtmuley

 

[Deleted member 28227]

This is a very uncomfortable reality.

Agreed. Also why I think we need to make PR part of any management plan. Just is what it is, for instance there are hunts that are weekday only or that specifically say don't post to social media in CO. While I think it's ridiculous that we've gotten to this point, part of me also thinks the person who wrote those regs probably made the right call.

 

[JLS]

Must be a prairie wolf that migrated north.

 

[Sytes]

Damn liberal judges.

Politics... <period> screw the libs and conservs. Political Superbowl over our wildlife. Extreme's have divided our ability to half ass manage our wildlife to trench warfare - each party's extremes fixing the f-ups of the other party.

 

[Unlucky]

Wolves are bad for other wildlife. Sportsman are the greatest conservationist. Very easy look at yellowstone elk herd since wolf reintroduction along with moose permits. Especially moose permits close to ground zero of wolf reintroduction. They, the wolves have a place but not in most places. Very simple a true conservationists woud realize man is competing with wolves in certain areas and so is wildlife. Man can regulate herds and use resources. The greatest conservationist are sportsmen.

 

[tjones]

SSS !!

That third S always trips guys up. See above.

 

[shoots-straight]

Wolves are bad for other wildlife. Sportsman are the greatest conservationist. Very easy look at yellowstone elk herd since wolf reintroduction along with moose permits. Especially moose permits close to ground zero of wolf reintroduction. They, the wolves have a place but not in most places. Very simple a true conservationists woud realize man is competing with wolves in certain areas and so is wildlife. Man can regulate herds and use resources. The greatest conservationist are sportsmen.

Conservation doesn't mean you raise wildlife for human consumption, or manage them to social tolerances.

 

[Sytes]

Conservation doesn't mean you raise wildlife for human consumption, or manage them to social tolerances.

Not discounting the general premise of your comment though "conservation" is an interesting word.
Land is not free range for wildlife now that humans have divided territories to such an extreme level it requires us to manage predators/ungulates to divided opinions of "social tolerance"... Griz as an example. Randy once touched on this topic related to wolves and human colonization.

There is no, symbiotic capabilities within human, predator, and prey - without human "conservation" efforts. Regulation of ungulates (if greed was not human downfall) is an intention to minimize "social intolerance" of crop damage, etc. Social tolerance necessitates, or so it has been created in that fashion to fence highways... Many examples how social tolerance is a direct action via conservation of our wildlife.

There is also the need, due to human civilization that divided former free range / roaming landscapes for humans to regulate #'s of predators via quotas and methods to encourage quota to be met. POM, camera based, aerial counts, check stations, surveys, and other means to formulate #'s has been an utter failure since wolves received their protections and ADDED to the issues faced with NW MT ungulate populations. Again for the HT f-kers who intentionally manipulate to gain their followers thumbs up, etc - ADDED does not equate to, "solely responsible".

Longest time ungulates faced numerous challenges that conservationists work tirelessly to aid. ADD an additional apex predator free to far exceed #'s necessary to include them into our wild and ADD additional challenges to the impacted ungulates and - social tolerance and intolerance will accelerate.

Opinions. Meh, Social tolerance plays a pretty heavy factor in modern day conservation efforts - whether the political football of dam libs and conservs are punting or scoring touchdowns.

To each his/her own.