They ate all the deer

[rjthehunter]

Humans, as of right now, are more aware of conservation.

Yeah...sure. Thanks.

Another fun stat - You're drifting away from the original conversation. I can throw up all sorts of pictures of humans being stupid. That has nothing to do with the conversation. You come off as awfully arrogant.

Back to the original topic, humans are managing species better than ever before. If we weren't, then there would be no game left to hunt.
^ I feel the need to bold things, otherwise you only read a couple of words and draw a conclusion up in your mind.

Are you in support of more wolves? Or do you just want to argue and continue to be a troll?

 

[Irrelevant]

Nice to see one actually earning its keep instead of scavenging dead fish.

Golden Eagles are a different deal, pretty impressive to watch a bird kill a pronghorn. When I came around the corner in a road, the Golden flew off the back of the pronghorn. I watched for a while and it landed back on the pronghorn and picked its way through the back and into the lungs, killing it.

no more pics?

 

[BuzzH]

Another fun stat - You're drifting away from the original conversation. I can throw up all sorts of pictures of humans being stupid. That has nothing to do with the conversation. You come off as awfully arrogant.

Back to the original topic, humans are managing species better than ever before. If we weren't, then there would be no game left to hunt.
^ I feel the need to bold things, otherwise you only read a couple of words and draw a conclusion up in your mind.

Are you in support of more wolves? Or do you just want to argue and continue to be a troll?

Arrogance is thinking humans have control of anything...we suck at managing much of anything, including ourselves.

I also disagree that we're managing species better than ever before...in particular world wide, but even here in the U.S.

Lots of examples.

As to wolves, or any species really, if we're going to run around with the big foam #1 hand bragging about how well we conserve species, it makes sense to allow those species to occupy as much of the suitable habitat, within reason, as they can. Sheep, moose, goat, bison, elk, deer, pronghorn, bears, wolves, marten, fisher, otter, beavers, mink, muskrat, songbirds, amphibians, salmon, steelhead, cutthroat, bull trout, raptors, yada yada

Trouble is, with human arrogance we pick winners and loser for social, political and other biased reasons.

 

[BuzzH]

no more pics?

I did get more but it was much further away and blurry...wish I had a phone scope. You can see the blood in the middle of the pronghorns back in the photo.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Maybe these wolves eventually run out of food and leave the island, maybe it becomes another Isle Royale situation with inbreeding leading to their decline.

I fished exactly in this area for a week in 2017, lots of sea otters around! I thought of Isle royale with this story too but Pleasant Island is only about 7 miles long by 3.5 miles wide at it's widest points and it is less than a mile across water to the mainland basically right outside Gustavus, AK. Hard to see a scenario where the wolves don't just get off the damn island and move inland further if the sea otter's start wising up. Makes me wonder if there isn't genetic interchange on/off the island as it is.

 

[95tigerbill]

Was I the only one who scrolled down and read the article about evolution from stoned apes?

 

[SAJ-99]

Back to the original topic, humans are managing species better than ever before. If we weren't, then there would be no game left to hunt.

Partially right. When we care about something, or can put a monetary value on it, we are very good at managing. The other things are just a causality in the name of progress.

Nearly 3 Billion Birds Gone

A new study finds steep, long-term losses across virtually all groups of birds in the U.S. and Canada

www.birds.cornell.edu

 

[rjthehunter]

Arrogance is thinking humans have control of anything...we suck at managing much of anything, including ourselves.

I also disagree that we're managing species better than ever before...in particular world wide, but even here in the U.S.

Lots of examples.

As to wolves, or any species really, if we're going to run around with the big foam #1 hand bragging about how well we conserve species, it makes sense to allow those species to occupy as much of the suitable habitat, within reason, as they can. Sheep, moose, goat, bison, elk, deer, pronghorn, bears, wolves, marten, fisher, otter, beavers, mink, muskrat, songbirds, amphibians, salmon, steelhead, cutthroat, bull trout, raptors, yada yada

Trouble is, with human arrogance we pick winners and loser for social, political and other biased reasons.

Arrogance is saying humans don't control anything... Right after hinting that humans are the reason for extinctions... I think you're going in circles.

North American Wildlife Conservation Model – Tenet #2

The North American Wildlife Conservation Model is a set of basic principles established by Theodore Roosevelt and other hunters in the mid-1800s that spelled out [...]

www.rmef.org

Sure looks like they're doing alright.

 

[BuzzH]

Arrogance is saying humans don't control anything... Right after hinting that humans are the reason for extinctions... I think you're going in circles.

North American Wildlife Conservation Model – Tenet #2

The North American Wildlife Conservation Model is a set of basic principles established by Theodore Roosevelt and other hunters in the mid-1800s that spelled out [...]

www.rmef.org

Sure looks like they're doing alright.

View attachment 262418

Correct me if I'm wrong, but humans causing extinction is 180 degrees opposite of conservation? Just sayin'....

Yeah, knocking it out of the park:

Wyoming Moose:

Unit 1976 tags 2022 tags

26 200 44
24 150 20
5 200 25
17/28 265 5

Fair to note, between units 5 and 26 in 1976 those two units issued MORE tags than the statewide total in 2022 (380 IRRC).

Wyoming Sheep:

Unit 1976 tags 2022 tags

1 24 12
2 32 20
4 60 24
5 60 32
10 52 4
9 40 4

Units 9 and 10 are something else drop from 92 tags in 1976 to 8 in 2022.

Bitterroot mountain goats: 1980 75 tags, 2022 1 tag.

I can do this all day long...and I'm finding it hard to argue we are more aware about conservation now than we were in the past.

If we're really "aware" of it, sure as hell aren't doing much about it and what we're doing clearly isn't working that well.

But by all means, break out the giant foam #1 hand and wave it around...

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but humans causing extinction is 180 degrees opposite of conservation? Just sayin'....

Yeah, knocking it out of the park:

Wyoming Moose:

Unit 1976 tags 2022 tags

26 200 44
24 150 20
5 200 25
17/28 265 5

Fair to note, between units 5 and 26 in 1976 those two units issued MORE tags than the statewide total in 2022 (380 IRRC).

Wyoming Sheep:

Unit 1976 tags 2022 tags

1 24 12
2 32 20
4 60 24
5 60 32
10 52 4
9 40 4

Bitterroot mountain goats: 1980 75 tags, 2022 1 tag.

I can do this all day long...

In fairness 2 of those moose are from you. You had a hand in any of those other declines?

 

[BuzzH]

In fairness 2 of those moose are from you. You had a hand in any of those other declines?

Yes, sheep in unit 2.

 

[rjthehunter]

Arrogance is thinking humans have control of anything...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but humans causing extinction is 180 degrees opposite of conservation?

Clearly....? Not sure what your point is.

Didn't you say humans don't control anything?

In 1976, I'm sure there was a lot less research and surveys on animal populations. Tag #s don't dictate how a species is doing as a whole. Go read my link I shared.

 

[BuzzH]

In 1976, I'm sure there was a lot less research and surveys on animal populations. Tag #s don't dictate how a species is doing as a whole. Go read my link I shared.

That's hilarious...

Dropping from over 2,000 moose permits statewide in 1976 to 380 in 2022...yeah, that's some awesome conservation there.

Good thing we're "aware"....and "in control" of managing moose.

 

[fowladdict]

Dropping from over 2,000 moose permits statewide in 1976 to 380 in 2022...yeah, that's some awesome conservation there.

Stupid wolves.

You two are as fun as bobbing for apples at the Owyhee County fair.

 

[BigHornRam]

That's hilarious...

Dropping from over 2,000 moose permits statewide in 1976 to 380 in 2022...yeah, that's some awesome conservation there.

Good thing we're "aware"....and "in control" of managing moose.

How many wolves were in Wyoming in 1976? How many today? Focus buzz. Focus

 

[Deleted member 18333]

How many wolves were in Wyoming in 1976? How many today? Focus buzz. Focus

But we put those wolves back, so its still on us stupid ol' humans.

 

[rjthehunter]

That's hilarious...

Dropping from over 2,000 moose permits statewide in 1976 to 380 in 2022...yeah, that's some awesome conservation there.

Good thing we're "aware"....and "in control" of managing moose.

If only everyone would listen to you. It's clear you have all the answers! I don't understand why everyone doesn't just take your advice! I'm a proud member of "don't waste your time arguing with buzz, it's worthless" club.

How many wolves were in Wyoming in 1976? How many today? Focus buzz. Focus

Well he has a good point, if you look at the number of mammoths in 436 A.D. you'd see that the humans killed them all so there weren't any.

Yep, that's a relevant response for this thread!

 

[JLS]

Whatever would wildlife do without humans?

The original article was super interesting. Some of commentary that originated from it, not so much.

 

[Irrelevant]

Clearly....? Not sure what your point is.

Didn't you say humans don't control anything?

In 1976, I'm sure there was a lot less research and surveys on animal populations. Tag #s don't dictate how a species is doing as a whole. Go read my link I shared.

I think you're misconstruing controlling and impacting.

Your mistake was the comment about more conservationists, not as much with your subsequent arguments. "We conservationists" are by many measures rather worthless, spineless, and ineffective. We've failed miserably is most regards with only a handful of positive examples that we all point to and pat ourselves on the back.

 

[BuzzH]

How many wolves were in Wyoming in 1976? How many today? Focus buzz. Focus

Why were moose tanking in the 90's prior to wolves?

I know because we were so arrogantly "aware" and "in control" then as well...

Any other excuses?