The REAL (REASONS) hunting is declining

[VikingsGuy]

Or boobless.....55378008 and look at it upside down

@JohnCushman - keepin' it classy since 1978

 

[Elk Bugler]

Hunting is often difficult to be successful at. People want instant gratification and want the easy path.
Not sure why the private landowner gets a bad rap about access. Would you allow someone to shoot a high powered rifle and climb trees in your back yard? Just too much liability.
Specialization has thrown up a roadblock for initially getting into hunting. A newbie needs, or is told they need, the following:
Bow
Muzzleloader
.22 rifle
Turkey shotgun
Duck shotgun
Quail/dove shotgun
Big game rifle
That’s a bit overwhelming for starters.

I can agree with some of that but I think that list is a bit of overkill. There's a lot of guys who archery hunt everything and a lot of seasons on the east coast favor archers but I still get where you're coming from I just think it's more of a broader perception that you need all that gear just like needed all of the top of the line range finders, camo, and boots. As for the land owner liability issues I agree with that and I addressed that in my original post but I do think percived liability is more of an issue. A lot of states have laws where land owners aren't liable as long as there is no money exchanged. As for someone with a high powered rifle accidentally shooting out a landowner's window, I again think that's more of a perception issue it's so unlikely to happen.

 

[TheJason]

And what question didn't I answer? I addressed your points some I can agree with others not so much.

Answer my question how you make hunting a higher priority for people?

You seem to only want to discuss this within the narrow paradigm of "how do we preserve the number of hunters". The more I look at this subject, the more I think this is a false paradigm and we should be looking at how to best expand funding for wildlife conservation and management, while still maintaining our traditional uses of hunting and fishing.

 

[JohnCushman]

@JohnCushman - keepin' it classy since 1978

Born in 72 lol

 

[AlaskaHunter]

It then dropped 16% the following years

No that was projection...Table 1 is actual data based on the national survey.
Based on that national study, (Table 1)there was a similar increase (17%) in
both big game hunting and warm water fishing participants between 1999–2001 and 2005–2009.
The projection (predictions) from this national study was:
"The traditional wildlife pursuits of hunting and fishing remain popular outdoor activities, with about 28 million and 73 million annual adult participants, respectively, in 2008. However, on a per capita basis, these activities continue a decline from levels of past decades. The adult hunting participation rate is projected to decline by 11 to 12 percent by 2030. Increased education levels, increased population density, diminishing availability of private and public land, and strong negative relationships between growing minority populations and hunting appear to be influencing the decline in participation rate. Days per hunter are also projected to decline by about 5 percent. Total participants and total days of hunting continue to grow because of population growth, but at small increases of about 12 and 6.4 percent, respectively. Hunting exhibits the largest drop in the rates of participation and days per participant and the smallest increases in the number of participants and total days of participation. The overall rate of decline in per capita participation and days per participant are not as drastic for fishing as hunting"

 

[VikingsGuy]

Born in 72 lol

Gave you a few years before you knew that "boobs" was funny.

 

[Elk Bugler]

As a guy that teaches hunter education courses I have an inside view of the demographic of HTE students in my area of Pennsylvania. In addition to the natural decline of hunters from the baby boomer generation as they age out or pass on the next the largest group that is contributing to the decline of hunter numbers is the parents... whether that parent be 30 years old or 65 years old. While I applaud them for getting as far as an HTE course, there's 3 reasons I see for the kids I teach not following through and becoming hunters.

1) Too busy- Both the parents and kids are involved in too many things: work, school, yoga, soccer, baseball, basketball, swimming, volleyball, track, boy scouts, girl scouts, 4H, karate, etc. Many of these are overlapping, time consuming, require travel, and are expensive. You're really setting yourself up for failure if you are going to try and make a kid choose between basketball with his friends or sitting in a tree stand.

2) The parents themselves quit on hunting. Often the parents have already fallen out of favor with hunting and are on their way out by the time they have the kid attend an HTE class. Often, the parents only signed their child up due to the peer pressure from other friends that have kids signed up or at the urge of someone like a grandparent. Plenty of times the parents have already quit hunting or are only fair weather/opening day hunters. It doesn't take much to push these people to quit all together as the simply don't care enough.

3) All anyone cares about is deer hunting.... Small game hunting is a dying art and is generally skipped all together. I'd wager that at least 80% of all students I teach will not hunt small game of any kind as their first hunting experience. Day 1 will be in a deer stand in December. These parents have forgotten how insanely boring and borderline torturous it is to a kid to sit silently in a tree stand or blind in subzero temperatures for hours. If they had the general woodsmanship and hunting lessons that are learned in the small game woods while experiencing successes and failures we would see a lot kids turning into well rounded lifetime hunters instead of the type of adult listed in point number 2.

Great points thanks for the insight. I didn't even think of small game hunting as a centered this around deer hunting. You're absolutely correct small game hunting is dying so fast I think I read in Maine less than 3000 small games licenses were sold and that's problematic. Those little critters spread ticks and left unchecked breed like rabbits so to speak and probably the decline of small game hunters has a lot to do with the increase of coyote and wolf numbers.

 

[AlaskaHunter]

USFWS license sales data, essentially the dataset which is used to proportionally distribute pitman dollars.

Data source?

 

[LopeHunter]

With many skills it is about that first step from total ignorance and a real chance of screwing it up (and possibly hurting yourself or others) to a sense of, "I may still suck at this but I am not going to do major damage here and I see how I can learn and improve" that can be a real first barrier. For those of us that crossed this threshold when we were 8 years old and our dad/uncle/grandpa was there to make it seem doable this may seem far fetched, but I have seen it in both the shooting sports and in scuba diving. I wonder how many folks out there think about hunting/shooting and do the research and maybe even buy the gear/guns but can't activate past this first hurdle. I have know a few that got stuck there and reached out and after I took them to the range once or twice, for an easy bird hunting, or even just squirrel hunting, all of a sudden felt OK figuring it out themselves from there, and stuck with it.

Also, dozens of ways to screw up as are using a rifle. Some of those ways can be lethal for you and others. Stumble and get dirt or snow in the barrel. Have a twig or other vegetation lodge in the barrel. Forget to unload. Bump the safety off or confues what is the actual safety position. Knock the scope off center. Have barrel pointing at someone as carry the rifle on your shoulder. Load wrong ammo into your rifle when have mixed up ammo in your pocket. Shoot at a skylined critter. Using the rifle to "glass" a herd of critters. Sure, training is supposed to reduce or eliminate accidents. None of us are perfect, though, and even after years of handling weapons I can screw up a time or two on a long hunt.

YouTube videos and articles are part of the solution for a newbie. Time with a seasoned hunting mentor or guide is strongly recommended if are hunting with a firearm.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Great points thanks for the insight. I didn't even think of small game hunting as a centered this around deer hunting. You're absolutely correct small game hunting is dying so fast I think I read in Maine less than 3000 small games licenses were sold and that's problematic. Those little critters spread ticks and left unchecked breed like rabbits so to speak and probably the decline of small game hunters has a lot to do with the increase of coyote and wolf numbers.

I think the part about small game hunting being relevant in this context is not pest management, but rather that small game hunting is a much cheaper, easier, local way to get your feet wet carrying a gun in the woods and shooting stuff before a person gears up for large game.

 

[Elk Bugler]

Well young squirt, I'm afraid things around here may be difficult for you then

Yeah after some reflection this probably isn't the fourm for me, but now that people are actually having a discussion about the issues instead of trolling I'm gonna keep up the real discussion until it devolves into mud slinging. I'm more offended that the meme guy didn't make a Toyota Celica meme when I asked him too.

 

[AlaskaHunter]

Dude you cherry picked a two year period and a 5 year period we gotta look at the long term data. https://theknow.denverpost.com/2019/09/16/hunting-numbers-declining/223765/

That is a newspaper report that sources the 2016 National Survey of Fishing, Hunting and Wildlife Associated Recreation by the US Fish and Wildlife Service.
That survey estimated 12.5 million hunters in 2006, 13.7 million in 2011, 11.5 million in 2016

The most recent available data from 2016 over 15 million people bought hunting licenses,
the most in 25 years.
Yet the USFWS says the country has lost 1 million hunters in the field in the past decade.
Which is it? Turns out, both are true.
https://www.themeateater.com/conser...-numbers-are-down-so-why-are-license-sales-up

 

[Elk Bugler]

There are a plethora of resources on YouTube about how to hunt. Skiing is a motor skill, and as such learning it is far different than learning and implementing the techniques involved in hunting. There is really no reason whatsoever a person trying to learn to hunt can't find all of the information they need via some searches on the internet.

Exactly 50 percent of what I learned was from the internet and the other 45 from experience. Now it's pretty easy I've got everything down to a science, go on Google maps (it's also good to go make 15 years on Google maps to look for clear cuts, reforestation etc), examine geography and then I can find where the deer beds, food sources, water, and trails will be then scout the place on floor and 99 percent of the time I'm right.

 

[rwc101]

Data source?

USFWS- WSFR Historical License Data

 

[Elk Bugler]

I think the part about small game hunting being relevant in this context is not pest management, but rather that small game hunting is a much cheaper, easier, local way to get your feet wet carrying a gun in the woods and shooting stuff before a person gears up for large game.

I wasn't saying that small game hunting is pest management and a lot can be learned from small game I was just saying that not hunting small game has trickle down effects on deer and predators.

 

[rwc101]

 

[JohnCushman]

Gave you a few years before you knew that "boobs" was funny.

I had already found my dad's playboy stash by then

 

[Elk Bugler]

You seem to only want to discuss this within the narrow paradigm of "how do we preserve the number of hunters". The more I look at this subject, the more I think this is a false paradigm and we should be looking at how to best expand funding for wildlife conservation and management, while still maintaining our traditional uses of hunting and fishing.

I clearly addressed issues of both funding and hunter recruitment, if thats not a good enough answer on making hunting a priority for you whatever.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I wasn't saying that small game hunting is pest management and a lot can be learned from small game I was just saying that not hunting small game has trickle down effects on deer and predators.

And I was just saying your reply, whether characterized by your words above or my "paraphrase" ran the risk of missing the point of the poster.

 

[Pucky Freak]

I clearly addressed issues of both funding and hunter recruitment, if thats not a good enough answer on making hunting a priority for you whatever.

Imagine you are standing in a room with the persons you are talking to online...You will speak a little differently for your benefit and the benefit of everyone else.