The next craze in bullets?

[ImBillT]

The true intended target is the money in your pocket. Nothing more. Nothing less.

They missed mine.

Higher and more uniform BC’s do equal higher average scores at 1000yds. Brian Litz has done an awful lot of computer modeling to demonstrate how significant(or insignificant) it really is. No one actually thinks Hornady was aiming for you with this one, nor does Hornady claim to be targeting hunters with this bullet.

 

[ImBillT]

Finally someone is building a competitive .30 cal match bullet. That could be interesting if they actually shoot.

 

[mtmuley]

They would be pretty nasty out of a big cased .30. Hey, I have one of those. mtmuley

 

[TheJason]

Manbun shooters will buy the crap out of em.

Probably so, although my 6.5 has never seen a ELD/VLD hunting load and likely never will.

 

[BrentD]

Is it though? Not because of the lead ball, but because of the lack of proficiency of the hunter. It would be the same if you made everyone only use archery equipment next year. A lot of guys would still go hunt even if they didn't spend the time to become proficient with the equipment. The equipment you choose to use requires a greater level of expertise don't you think? My gut tells me that most guys wouldn't just quit hunting. Instead, they'd go buy a muzzleloader and head out into the field anyway.

I guess I could have explained that more clearly the first time around

One thing is for sure, we will never really know, because it ain't gonna happen.

But, no it does really require greater expertise - if one practices some restraint. That is always the trade off that we all make, regardless of equipment used.

 

[LousyResident]

One thing is for sure, we will never really know, because it ain't gonna happen.

But, no it does really require greater expertise - if one practices some restraint. That is always the trade off that we all make, regardless of equipment used.

https://www.hunter-ed.com/muzzleloader/studyGuide/Steps-for-Loading-a-Muzzleloader/222099_700062679/

vs

https://www.hunter-ed.com/washington/studyGuide/Loading-and-Unloading-Steps/20105001_700046721/

That's not to mention the process of finding the right load for your weapon compared to the same process with a modern rifle. I wasn't trying to bust your chops in my initial post. I was just pointing to the likelihood that many guys probably wouldn't practice restraint as needed or become proficient with a new weapon prior to heading out in the field. Of course I could be wrong and guys would rather stay home, who knows.

I apologize if I came across poorly to you, it genuinely was not my intent.

 

[BrentD]

https://www.hunter-ed.com/muzzleloader/studyGuide/Steps-for-Loading-a-Muzzleloader/222099_700062679/

vs

https://www.hunter-ed.com/washington/studyGuide/Loading-and-Unloading-Steps/20105001_700046721/

That's not to mention the process of finding the right load for your weapon compared to the same process with a modern rifle. I wasn't trying to bust your chops in my initial post. I was just pointing to the likelihood that many guys probably wouldn't practice restraint as needed or become proficient with a new weapon prior to heading out in the field. Of course I could be wrong and guys would rather stay home, who knows.

I apologize if I came across poorly to you, it genuinely was not my intent.

No problem. It would be an interesting experiment. To some effect we are all seduced by the technology out there. I like new gear as much as the next guy. For some folks it seems that the gear is more important the the game. I feel some folks would get bored and lose interest if there wasn't new stuff out there every day.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

I'll probably pick some up to mess with later in the summer, maybe next winter. There's getting to be too many things to do outside at present.

 

[Irrelevant]

I imagine 95% of the people here would quit hunting if they could only use lead balls. Solve point-creep issues overnight.

I would tend to think that 95% of the main posters here would hunt with a sharpened stick if that was all we had or could use.

 

[Brian in Montana]

I got the promotional video emailed to me. I'm not that interested in products like that but I do find the physics of bullet design to be interesting. If I were a hardcore bench rest or competition shooter I'd probably try them out. But I'm a hunter, so gonna stick with hunting bullets.

 

[ImBillT]

I got the promotional video emailed to me. I'm not that interested in products like that but I do find the physics of bullet design to be interesting. If I were a hardcore bench rest or competition shooter I'd probably try them out. But I'm a hunter, so gonna stick with hunting bullets.

Totally agree. Long range competitive shooters have known for some time that uniforming meplats and increasing BCs increases scores. That’s what the bullet is attempting to do, and Hornady does not recommend their use on game.


I use Berger hunting bullets on game and believe that they work very well, but that’s not an endorsement of using match bullets on game. The original VLD just happened to be very effective on game and function in a bit of a unique manner. Most match bullets, even other VLD designs(including Berger’s own VLD Target which utilizes the same shape but different jacket thickness) fail to work well on game, and should be used for that purpose. It’s unfortunate that so many folks now think that either any match bullet can be used on game, or that VLD Hunting bullets should not be used on game because “they are match bullets”.

If I was still shooting competitively I’d probably give these a try, especially in .30cal, but for hunting, I have zero plans to do so.

 

[antelopedundee]

Totally agree. Long range competitive shooters have known for some time that uniforming meplats and increasing BCs increases scores. That’s what the bullet is attempting to do, and Hornady does not recommend their use on game.


I use Berger hunting bullets on game and believe that they work very well, but that’s not an endorsement of using match bullets on game. The original VLD just happened to be very effective on game and function in a bit of a unique manner. Most match bullets, even other VLD designs(including Berger’s own VLD Target which utilizes the same shape but different jacket thickness) fail to work well on game, and should be used for that purpose. It’s unfortunate that so many folks now think that either any match bullet can be used on game, or that VLD Hunting bullets should not be used on game because “they are match bullets”.

If I was still shooting competitively I’d probably give these a try, especially in .30cal, but for hunting, I have zero plans to do so.

I'd have to think that any bullet with a tip be it polymer or aluminum could work on game. Not gonna buy a separate seating stem just to try them. I have plenty of bullets that are no slouch in the killing department.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I know a feller who put a few into antelope boiler rooms last year. Sounds like they behave like you would expect.

I’ve got too many Bergers/elds on the bench to get crazy with these right away but I am excited to try them eventually.

 

[ImBillT]

I'd have to think that any bullet with a tip be it polymer or aluminum could work on game. Not gonna buy a separate seating stem just to try them. I have plenty of bullets that are no slouch in the killing department.

Yeah that’s not how I look at it all. There’s a lot more to bullets than that. Ballistic Tips, Accubonds, and Scirrocos behave completely differently than A-maxes and V-maxes.

Same for those old Remington Bronze points, and probably some aluminum pointed bucket from yesteryear. The tip material doesn’t really dictate how the bullet behaves once it hits soft tissue. It’s primarily for aerodynamic purposes.

 

[antelopedundee]

Yeah that’s not how I look at it all. There’s a lot more to bullets than that. Ballistic Tips, Accubonds, and Scirrocos behave completely differently than A-maxes and V-maxes.

Same for those old Remington Bronze points, and probably some aluminum pointed bucket from yesteryear. The tip material doesn’t really dictate how the bullet behaves once it hits soft tissue. It’s primarily for aerodynamic purposes.

The Hornady SSTs are designed such that on contact the tip is pushed back and acts like a wedge causing the core to come apart or partially so. Depending upon what the aluminum tips hit first they could well act in like fashion. Additionally the cores in the alumium tipped match bullets are likely fairly soft. When the cores are seated, the softer they are the more likely they will completely fill the jacket. A friend makes some damn good match bullets and he as well as others hunt with them with great success I'm told.

 

[ImBillT]

The Hornady SSTs are designed such that on contact the tip is pushed back and acts like a wedge causing the core to come apart or partially so. Depending upon what the aluminum tips hit first they could well act in like fashion. Additionally the cores in the alumium tipped match bullets are likely fairly soft. When the cores are seated, the softer they are the more likely they will completely fill the jacket. A friend makes some damn good match bullets and he as well as others hunt with them with great success I'm told.

The tips do roughly that on all tipped bullets as far as I’m aware. Hollow pointed bullets with sufficiently open points simply use soft tissue to do the very same job.

The issue in my experience is whether the bullet manages sufficient penetration. V-Maxes, and A-maxes for me have had a tendency to blow up so rapidly that you have an entrance wound the size of a softball, but a very shallow wound channel. Ballistic Tip Varmints seemed to delay fragmentation until they were under the hide and then fragment tremendously. They were spectacular killers of varmints, yet eliminated entrance wounds and took all of the damage deeper. Ballistic Tip Hunting bullets for me have held together almost too well without excessive velocity. It seemed like if all you hit was lung, then they were just starting to open up when they were exiting a whitetail. If you hit bone on the other hand it was bang-flop. Accubonds were the same story basically. The OLD ballistic tips and solid bases on the other hand were a different story. The OLD Ballistic Tips were basically today’s Ballistic Tip varmint, but in appropriate weights for larger game. Just like their smaller counter parts, they tended to slip in a little ways before fragmenting. The Solid Bases back then were basically the soft pointed predecessor of the Ballistic Tip. Another thing to remember about Nosler Ballistic Tips compared to other tipped bullets is the actual solid base. The base of the jacket is considerably thicker than the ogive and does add a little penetration compared to a similar bullet with uniform jacket thickness. Others will, no doubt, have differing experiences. These were based on .222 Rem .223ai, .243 Win, .308 Win, 30-06, and 300 Win Mag on varmint, deer and hog kills by myself and a circle of friends. Velocity ranged from 2400fps-4000fps. V-Maxes and A-maxes had the most velocity dependent results, but performance varied for all bullets.

Using the appropriate weight or heavier bullet for the size of game is probably the largest factor I’ve seen in getting an acceptably quick kill. Bullet construction and appropriate impact velocity for that particular design can definitely broaden the spectrum of suitable bullet weights. Too little velocity for a tougher bullet results in small wound channels and slow kills. Too much velocity for a weaker bullet results in surface blowups and shallow penetration as well excessive meat destruction. Different bullets have different ranges of impact velocities that work well. Nosler has made this easy for the customer to determine, but you can make a reasonable guess based on construction. The Partition, with its low antimony core in the nose and high antimony core in the base functions well over a very broad range of velocities. The new bullet from Hornady will probably perform on critters very similarly to an A-max.

I don’t shoot any of them at big game currently. I was considering a switch from Ballistic Tips to solid copper when I decided to give Bergers a try. I took a match gun and ammo into the field and began watching critters fold up like never before. They penetrate deeper than any of the tipped bullets before expansion begins, and they will go through a shoulder blade like an FMJ. After the initial 3-7” they fragment like crazy. I’ve shot animals from 50yards to too far with muzzle velocities from 2450fps to 3400fps and seen very little deference in terminal performance. Some of the more frangible bullets only work well at very low velocities, and some of the tougher bullets only work well at very high velocities. Berger Hunting bullets behave in a very different fashion from other designs. It’s an interesting combination of jacket thickness and ogive shape that results in an implosion rather than an explosion. There are other bullets of similar shape with thicker jackets that act more like FMJs.

 

[antelopedundee]

I would think that the only reason to use them [at least for me] would be if they shot considerably better accuracy-wise at extended ranges. I considered their SSTs but reconsidered after others here said that they were overly destructive. My go to bullet for years was the Hornady 6.5mm 129 grain interlock. Last year I used the Sierra 130 grain TGKs aka GameChangers and will again this year.

 

[mtmuley]

Bill likes Bergers. mtmuley

 

[ImBillT]

Bill likes Bergers. mtmuley

And Muley like Hammers, which I’m sure work quite well, although I’ve never used them.

I do like Bergers. I won’t deny that. I’m certainly not saying that other companies don’t make bullets that work well, but for big game I’ve not had anything perform as well as a Berger, and once I landed on them I haven’t seen a reason to try anything else. I’ve used most flavors of Noslers on game animals and that’s about it. I’ve used a lot of Hornadys on hogs and varmints as well as have friends who have used a lot of Hornadys and Barneses on game. From my experience on hogs and varmints I had more confidence in Noslers offerings on larger animals. I still wanted something better, and now I’ve found it. I haven’t tried every bullet, and for the moment I don’t need to.

As far as the new offering from Hornady, if I was still shooting matches I would probably try some. I never shot a Hornady or Sierra in a match, but I’ve shot great groups with them, and I’ve shot against shooters using them. Most guys sorted them by bearing surface or BTO, and I never had the need with Berger or Lapua. I just had more confidence in them, and even a psychological advantage is worth something. In matches I shot, Berger, Lapua, Wilson, Bib, Council, Cody and Bart’s. Most of the guys that founded the club I shoot at made their own bullets at one time or another. Berger was just plain easier to come by so once I settled in on them I really didn’t care to change. I didn’t try one on a game animal until 2-3 years after they started making the VLDs in two flavors and selling them as hunting bullets. Once I tried it, I really liked it. If I was still shooting matches I would probably give the new Hornadys a go, especially if other guys were showing up and shooting good scores with them. Hornady has really picked up their game in the last few years and they made some pretty accurate bullets to begin with, especially considering the price. Nonetheless, I wouldn’t shoot them on game. Not because they are made by Hornady, but because they are a match bullet that Hornady has not tested for game. Berger did a fair bit of testing before marketing VLDs as hunting bullets.

I wish Nosler would put a tip on a partition, and make the BSB in more calibers. I’d love a heavy BSB in a .308 for hogs in brush.

 

[mtmuley]

Bill, I like Accubonds. Still transitioning to Hammers. I've used Bergers. First one in2006. Still use some. A tipped Partition? That is the Accubond. For most of my killing, not a fan of the fragmenting Berger type. Probly won't shoot the A-Tip either. At critters anyway. mtmuley