The future of Preference Points

[DFS]

The demand got jacked up no system can handle it and tag allocation will never be “fair”. All we can do now is work on the supply side of things. I don’t have much hope for that. Expect less tags going forward with any state and draw system.

 

[rmyoung1]

This thread is is flying in multiple directions now, but back to CO hybrid draw for a second… @Mighty Mouse … probably the reason that pronghorn tags are going to some NRs in the Hybrid Draw is due to there being no preference shown to residents for pronghorn. Right? Pretty slim to no chance that’d happen for elk or deer with a 20% NR cap and a very mature pref point system with gobs of NRs at the top of the pile. And the Hybrid Draw run after the initial is complete.

 

[Redman]

Not sure that I said this or not.....Tell everyone next year is your last chance to burn your points. Sorry if you don't draw the tag you wanted. Next year random draw. Moose, goat and sheep for non residents, you draw your done for that species. Residents if you draw you wait 10 years to draw again for that species. High quality units same. Leave OTC units alone until they become over run...(There is still a cap per unit). You have 1,2,3,& 4 units to put in for. Choose wisely charge the same application fees, license fees, and whatever fees you are charging now. People will have to figure it out but it puts everyone at an even playing field and with caps residents always have better odds.

 

[DFS]

Not sure that I said this or not.....Tell everyone next year is your last chance to burn your points. Sorry if you don't draw the tag you wanted. Next year random draw. Moose, goat and sheep for non residents, you draw your done for that species. Residents if you draw you wait 10 years to draw again for that species. High quality units same. Leave OTC units alone until they become over run...(There is still a cap per unit). You have 1,2,3,& 4 units to put in for. Choose wisely charge the same application fees, license fees, and whatever fees you are charging now. People will have to figure it out but it puts everyone at an even playing field and with caps residents always have better odds.

Are you a resident of a western state?

 

[Redman]

Are you a resident of a western state?

No but am a public land owner.

 

[DFS]

No but am a public land owner.

Hope you are rich or enjoy bird watching!! This isn’t going to go how you think.

 

[ImBillT]

This exact statement can be said for "insert pretty much any point system except maybe what @wllm just said". Bonus points/most point systems are just a way of standing in line. Some people prefer raffles. I guess I prefer standing in line and grinding. That's the only way I have been able to draw tags. I think the proposal @BuzzH laid out gets my vote for the best I have seen. It gives everyone a shot but gives people a way to stand in line if you so choose. To each there own I guess.

I was responding to a guy who was against random systems because he seemed to feel like points were necessary to reward those who apply more often. I was simply pointing out that even random systems reward those who apply more often.

 

[DFS]

And a voter, who could potentially vote to ban ALL hunting on federal land that residents of western states have already banned YOU from hunting on.

Allowing a reasonable level of access to non-residents in beneficial in MANY ways. The trend seems to be for residents of western states only to look at how many tags they might draw if they kicked out non-residents/reduced non-resident hunters.

Don’t worry only the poor people will be banned!! Your fearless leaders aren’t poor anymore. You got played.

 

[Redman]

Hope you are rich or enjoy bird watching!! This isn’t going to go how you think.

Yea well maybe I should move to a "Western state" and get my pitch fork and torch and jump on the "No Non Resident" band wagon. I look at it as giving everyone a chance at a tag vs as soon as a child is born start buying preference points so if they have any ideas about possibly hunting a good unit or a sheep one day they will have enough points to do so when they're at least 60! I digress it is just my opinion and you know what they say about opinion's.

 

[ImBillT]

Don’t worry only the poor people will be banned!! Your fearless leaders aren’t poor anymore. You got played.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at.

 

[ImBillT]

No but am a public land owner.

And a voter, who could potentially vote to ban ALL hunting on federal land that residents of western states have already banned YOU from hunting on.

Allowing a reasonable level of access to non-residents is beneficial in MANY ways. The trend seems to be for residents of western states only to look at how many tags they might draw if they kicked out non-residents/reduced non-resident hunters.

Reposted because my first one didn’t have the quote.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

This thread is is flying in multiple directions now, but back to CO hybrid draw for a second… @Mighty Mouse … probably the reason that pronghorn tags are going to some NRs in the Hybrid Draw is due to there being no preference shown to residents for pronghorn. Right? Pretty slim to no chance that’d happen for elk or deer with a 20% NR cap and a very mature pref point system with gobs of NRs at the top of the pile. And the Hybrid Draw run after the initial is complete.

I'm sure NR caps and low tag quotas are the main reasons few NR's are getting anything via the hybrid draw. But for some codes on the hybrid draw list, at least 1 tag could have been awarded to a randomly drawn NR while staying below the 20% NR cap and the 20% random cap but was not.

EE002E1R for example: 5 tags were awarded randomly, all to residents. 5 tags were awarded to NR's, all in the max preference point pool. 1 additional tag could've been awarded randomly to a NR and the 20% caps would still have been satisfied.

 

[rmyoung1]

I'm sure NR caps and low tag quotas are the main reasons few NR's are getting anything via the hybrid draw. But for some codes on the hybrid draw list, at least 1 tag could have been awarded to a randomly drawn NR while staying below the 20% NR cap and the 20% random cap but was not.

EE002E1R for example: 5 tags were awarded randomly, all to residents. 5 tags were awarded to NR's, all in the max preference point pool. 1 additional tag could've been awarded randomly to a NR and the 20% caps would still have been satisfied.
View attachment 227936

Why wasn’t that 6th NR tag given to one of the 11 with max points? Given that the top point holders were all NRs and the number of those applicants exceeded the 20% cap, how did they not draw the max number of NR permits possible? I know this is a tangent but that doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[Huntin' Fool]

Idaho

No point system.

Restricted to one draw hunt per year.

I like it.

 

[Pelican]

I'm sure NR caps and low tag quotas are the main reasons few NR's are getting anything via the hybrid draw. But for some codes on the hybrid draw list, at least 1 tag could have been awarded to a randomly drawn NR while staying below the 20% NR cap and the 20% random cap but was not.

EE002E1R for example: 5 tags were awarded randomly, all to residents. 5 tags were awarded to NR's, all in the max preference point pool. 1 additional tag could've been awarded randomly to a NR and the 20% caps would still have been satisfied.
View attachment 227936

Why wasn’t that 6th NR tag given to one of the 11 with max points? Given that the top point holders were all NRs and the number of those applicants exceeded the 20% cap, how did they not draw the max number of NR permits possible? I know this is a tangent but that doesn’t make sense to me.

Because the landowner allocation comes out before the NR allocation. 32 total tags, landowners get 6, NRs get 20% of what is left or 5.2 tags.

 

[thusby]

I’m gonna out myself… in front of God and everyone. If I had to live in any western state all year around, just to hunt it for 6 days a year, then I would never hunt in the west again. Oh lord words are hard sometimes.

 

[rmyoung1]

Because the landowner allocation comes out before the NR allocation. 32 total tags, landowners get 6, NRs get 20% of what is left or 5.2 tags.

That’s it. So this hunt code is another example, actually, of one where the NRs had no shot at a hybrid draw tag. Thanks @Pelican

Ok… carry on.

 

[cedahm]

I looked at results for all codes on the 2022 hybrid draw list and only found one (AM003O1R) where NR's actually got tags via the hybrid draw. So yes, it appears that the hybrid draw is mostly a farce for NR's.

there is no NR cap on antelope

 

[ImBillT]

Idaho

No point system.

Restricted to one draw hunt per year.

I like it.

If Idaho was a shorter drive I’d apply there every year because I like their system.

If they had a point system, I might be involved. From a funding standpoint, yep, you might be able to get a few buck out of my pocket when I don’t actually want to hunt. From the standpoint of fair distribution of tags, not having a point system in ID is more fair, and people who apply there benefit from the fact that I usually find a tag somewhere closer, thus I don’t apply ID. It’s my, “dang I can’t believe I don’t have one single tag yet!” state.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

And a voter, who could potentially vote to ban ALL hunting on federal land that residents of western states have already banned YOU from hunting on.

When you’re at the back of the line at the ice cream store you sneak behind the counter and unplug the freezer don’t you.