The ambiguity of theft and failure of enforcement

[Scott85]

Actually you are incorrect, I do know what I'm talking about. If he would shoot them over the threshold of his place, as in inside, he is 100% within his legal right. What state does not afford that right? If someone enters my house I can legally shoot them, plain and simple. My comment was more of a joke...but if he lives there and they are inside, depending on the state, he CAN shoot them inside. Hell, in Texas you can shoot then in your driveway I believe, but I could be wrong. The bad guys have way too much protection from laws....

 

[DouglasR]

Actually you are incorrect, I do know what I'm talking about. If he would shoot them over the threshold of his place, as in inside, he is 100% within his legal right. What state does not afford that right? If someone enters my house I can legally shoot them, plain and simple. My comment was more of a joke...but if he lives there and they are inside, depending on the state, he CAN shoot them inside. Hell, in Texas you can shoot then in your driveway I believe, but I could be wrong. The bad guys have way too much protection from laws....

Sthand! youre! Grownd!

 

[Letthemgrow]

Spoken by someone who has no idea what he is talking about. Instant felony - in ZERO states are you allowed to protect mere property with lethal force.

What about Texas?
I have no idea but this is just cut and paste from an attorney's website:

Deadly force may be used to defend your land or tangible, movable property when you reasonably believe that immediate force is necessary to prevent another person from committing one of the following crimes:

• Arson
• Burglary
• Aggravated robbery
• Theft at night, or
• Criminal mischief at night.

It seems kind of crazy that you could kill someone for stealing a flowerpot from your lawn at night?

 

[Benfromalbuquerque]

@blueridge that just sucks and I’m sorry you had this happen to you. All these armchair quarterbacks on this thread giving solutions or critiquing you ain’t going to change the fact that you feel hurt by this shitpuppet. Thank you for sharing and I empathize with your pain.

 

[VikingsGuy]

What about Texas?
I have no idea but this is just cut and paste from an attorney's website:

Deadly force may be used to defend your land or tangible, movable property when you reasonably believe that immediate force is necessary to prevent another person from committing one of the following crimes:

• Arson
• Burglary
• Aggravated robbery
• Theft at night, or
• Criminal mischief at night.

It seems kind of crazy that you could kill someone for stealing a flowerpot from your lawn at night?

The statute requires the shooter to prove that shooter holds a reasonably belief (the reasonably prudent person standard):

"(A)
the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B)
the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury."

So, if somebody is willing to drop $250,000+ defending the murder trial; hopes they get a favorable cop, a favorable DA, a favorable judge and a favorable jury; and they really believe in killing other humans over stuff in their garage; and they are prepared to explain their actions to the god of their choosing - I guess it is a thing in Texas. SMH

 

[EKYHunter]

Yeah, where I live no way the grand jury indicts for shooting a thief on your property.

 

[KB_]

I keep absolutely nothing in my truck. Just cause of thieves.

Had a guy going around breaking into peoples cars in my neighborhood. He got into my truck and he left all the stuff he stole in my truck lol, guess he felt bad for me.

In reality I think he panicked when my security lights went off out front and bolted.

I think crime is going to continue to rise in the world we are living in right now. Police are overwhelmed and dealing with red tape constantly.

 

[Irrelevant]

My local sheriffs department is a joke as far as I am concerned. About 10 years ago someone broke into my shop and stole about 400 elk sheds that I had just sorted to finally sell. Also made off with a almost new $800 chain saw and a handful of other items. When I called it in, they refused to send out a deputy to take a statement or look at the game cam pics I had of the truck that came down my driveway that night. They made me drive 30 miles to the sheriffs office and drop off a USB drive with pics of the truck and some of the more unique 360-380' antlers that were taken. I checked back with them a couple weeks later and even though I had been given a case number, they had apparently never filed it and couldn't find anything in their system about it or my USB drive that I had asked to be returned to me after they had downloaded it.

When I was going around asking some locals if they had heard anything about anyone trying to offload some antlers, I got an earful of other similar stories about our local law enforcement. The worst story was told to me by the owner of a popular motel/bar/lodge. The previous fall someone had smashed the window of a guests truck and stolen a bunch of their hunting gear including 2 rifles and a handgun. The crime was recorded on their security camera and the lodge owner recognized the culprit as a local guy with a very checkered past. The sheriffs department once again would not come out to the scene to investigate and were not interest in watching the video or even attempting to contact the guy on the video. Apparently, after a couple months of inaction by the sheriffs department some locals made a middle of the night trip to the guys house and were able to retrieve one of the rifles and the handgun. I think the culprit may or may not have ended up with a few bumps and bruises along with a broken hand.

A few years ago my parents were driving home from a shopping trip to the nearest city on New Years eve. They saw an old truck headed their way on the highway that was swerving really bad. My dad slowed down and pulled over as far as he could but the guy still managed to get completely in their lane and side swiped them. Totally demolished the whole side of their SUV. The truck kept going. They called the sheriffs office and reported the accident. They were told that they should just go home if their vehicle was still drivable and they would be on the lookout for the likely drunk driver. When my dad called back the next day, once again, nothing in the logs about it and it ended up being a pain in the ass dealing with insurance since the cops didn't fill out an accident report and wouldn't do it after the fact.

A lot of people around here don't even bother reporting crimes anymore.

That is messed up. Have you reminded the Sheriff he holds an elected position?

 

[TOGIE]

colorado is one of the few states where you can essentially shoot someone for literally nothing other than entering your home uninvited. small caveats there, but they are indeed very small.

but that ends at your door. you can't shoot someone in your driveway while they're holding your laptop even if they were just in your home uninvited. no state allows that. unless they happen to be pointing a gun at you...

but man, the endless "what ifs" in these conversations are pointless...

 

[KB_]

colorado is one of the few states where you can essentially shoot someone for literally nothing other than entering your home uninvited. small caveats there, but they are indeed very small.

but that ends at your door. you can't shoot someone in your driveway while they're holding your laptop even if they were just in your home uninvited. no state allows that. unless they happen to be pointing a gun at you...

but man, the endless "what ifs" in these conversations are pointless...

Agreed, things should be more black and white.

 

[DouglasR]

The statute requires the shooter to prove that shooter holds a reasonably belief (the reasonably prudent person standard):

"(A)
the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B)
the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury."

So, if somebody is willing to drop $250,000+ defending the murder trial; hopes they get a favorable cop, a favorable DA, a favorable judge and a favorable jury; and they really believe in killing other humans over stuff in their garage; and they are prepared to explain their actions to the god of their choosing - I guess it is a thing in Texas. SMH

To those of us not making doctor/lawyer money it might be more than just
“Stuff in their garage”

 

[TOGIE]

To those of us not making doctor/lawyer money it might be more than just
“Stuff in their garage”

but still, human life vs. stuff

even if the life is scumbag life, it's still life vs. stuff.

in the words of doug duren regarding killing an animal "you've done something you can't undo"

that's why the laws generally are the way they are.

 

[DouglasR]

but still, human life vs. stuff

even if the life is scumbag life, it's still life vs. stuff.

in the words of doug duren regarding killing an animal "you've done something you can't undo"

that's why the laws generally are the way they are.

I’m mostly just playing the devils ass.
I used to be 100% on board with vkg, but then I got a bunch of cool tools that help enhance my feelings of joy and it just seems kinda jacked up that if someone makes it out of my house with that stuff it’s pretty much theirs.
I think wouldn’t want to kill anyone, but I really don’t think it would bother me to shoot out their legs.

 

[F250]

I hope none of you ever shoot another person. After the smoke clears , the legal and mental stress of the deed will not be pleasant.

 

[noharleyyet]

I’m mostly just playing the devils ass.
I used to be 100% on board with vkg, but then I got a bunch of cool tools that help enhance my feelings of joy and it just seems kinda jacked up that if someone makes it out of my house with that stuff it’s pretty much theirs.
I think wouldn’t want to kill anyone, but I really don’t think it would bother me to shoot out their legs.

Then you'd better call this guy before Lt. Dan does.

 

[rwc101]

 

[DouglasR]

Catalytic converter... I’d be more likely to let slide...
But still wouldn’t feel that bad about a leg.

 

[tjones]

Actually you are incorrect, I do know what I'm talking about. If he would shoot them over the threshold of his place, as in inside, he is 100% within his legal right. What state does not afford that right? If someone enters my house I can legally shoot them, plain and simple. My comment was more of a joke...but if he lives there and they are inside, depending on the state, he CAN shoot them inside. Hell, in Texas you can shoot then in your driveway I believe, but I could be wrong. The bad guys have way too much protection from laws....

In Montana it didn't work out for this guy.

Montana Man Markus Kaarma Found Guilty in Slaying of German Exchange Student

Markus Kaarma has been found guilty in the slaying of 17-year-old German exchange student Diren Dede, whom he shot after the teen wandered into Kaarma’s Montana garage.

abcnews.go.com

 

[LuketheDog]

To those of us not making doctor/lawyer money it might be more than just
“Stuff in their garage”

There's nothing in my garage (or yours, or anybody else's) worth killing anybody over...my wife and daughters sleep inside.

 

[DouglasR]

There's nothing in my garage (or yours, or anybody else's) worth killing anybody over...my wife and daughters sleep inside.

I agree on the killing.
But a leg