Teacher Concealed Carry Law in Idaho

[ismith]

I say we fix it all. Right now. Hell with the middle man. Let’s arm the kids!!!!

The hell with arming the kids, we need more fighting age Latino and Chinese men to get down with trailer trash American Women!

 

[rtraverdavis]

Hypothetically if this was available to you, what would you do?

Honestly man, even if I was allowed to, I likely wouldn’t do it. I’m a teacher, not a police officer. I don’t have the personality to be a cop. I mean, I get all shaky and sweaty when I’m looking down the scope at a deer or elk, so… Plus, my job is complicated enough as it is, and packing in the classroom seems like it would have the potential to be an unnecessary, further-complicating distraction.

I will say that I am sure there are many teachers who would handle carrying at school exceptionally well, if properly and thoroughly trained. I just don’t think I’m one of them, if I’m being honest. But I’m glad we have a full time SRO at my school, who is an actual police officer and great dude.

My dad was a teacher, at some point during his career I think he noticed that some kids really struggled at lunch time as it was kinda unregulated and a prime opportunity for bullying. He started kinda lunch club in his classroom and let gets go there instead and get help on homework or play on the computers... etc.

In retrospect I'm sure it was kinda a pain for him because he gave up his one opportunity to go run an errand and get lesson planning done.

Probably didn't stop a school shooting, but I bet that giving kids a bully free lunch space helped some kids.

Definitely not as news worthy as handing out glocks, certainly isn't going to galvanize a polarized electorate.

I’ve done this same thing every year since I became a teacher. The vast majority of kids who hang out in my room at lunch are what many folks would consider outcasts and oddballs. It is a pain in the ass, and my lunches aren’t exactly relaxing, but the middle school cafeteria can be a truly awful place for some kids, and giving them a space to hang out and be themselves is worth it. A number of former students have told me what a difference it made for them.

I don’t write this to pat myself on the back, my point is that there are many things that so many teachers do everyday to try and make the discomfort and (sometimes) awfulness of being an adolescent more bearable for our students that most people (even the kids’ parents) don’t have any clue about. Because, IMO, that is what teachers, in large part, are there for—not for being armed security. Most of us are softies at heart, who just want to help kids learn, grow, and feel like they belong. Sometimes this requires that we be tough and set firm boundaries (much like with our own kids) but I don’t know many teachers who have the disposition to be cool or truly effective with a firearm in a chaotic active shooter situation—at least, I think. How can one truly know until the moment arrives? @WYelker and @Desk Pop seem like they know, and I have no problem with that. Just as I, upon honest reflection, am doubtful I possess the qualities necessary to effectively shoot someone in that situation. I have no problem at all with a well-trained, level-headed person with a strong moral compass carrying in any situation. But I damn sure don’t think this is going to do anything to solve whatever cultural rot that is triggering these sort of mass shooting events in the first place.

 

[Derek44]

Honestly man, even if I was allowed to, I likely wouldn’t do it. I’m a teacher, not a police officer. I don’t have the personality to be a cop. I mean, I get all shaky and sweaty when I’m looking down the scope at a deer or elk, so… Plus, my job is complicated enough as it is, and packing in the classroom seems like it would have the potential to be an unnecessary, further-complicating distraction.

I will say that I am sure there are many teachers who would handle carrying at school exceptionally well, if properly and thoroughly trained. I just don’t think I’m one of them, if I’m being honest. But I’m glad we have a full time SRO at my school, who is an actual police officer and great dude.


I’ve done this same thing every year since I became a teacher. The vast majority of kids who hang out in my room at lunch are what many folks would consider outcasts and oddballs. It is a pain in the ass, and my lunches aren’t exactly relaxing, but the middle school cafeteria can be a truly awful place for some kids, and giving them a space to hang out and be themselves is worth it. A number of former students have told me what a difference it made for them.

I don’t write this to pat myself on the back, my point is that there are many things that so many teachers do everyday to try and make the discomfort and (sometimes) awfulness of being an adolescent more bearable for our students that most people (even the kids’ parents) don’t have any clue about. Because, IMO, that is what teachers, in large part, are there for—not for being armed security. Most of us are softies at heart, who just want to help kids learn, grow, and feel like they belong. Sometimes this requires that we be tough and set firm boundaries (much like with our own kids) but I don’t know many teachers who have the disposition to be cool or truly effective with a firearm in a chaotic active shooter situation—at least, I think. How can one truly know until the moment arrives? @WYelker and @Desk Pop seem like they know, and I have no problem with that. Just as I, upon honest reflection, am doubtful I possess the qualities necessary to effectively shoot someone in that situation. I have no problem at all with a well-trained, level-headed person with a strong moral compass carrying in any situation. But I damn sure don’t think this is going to do anything to solve whatever cultural rot that is triggering these sort of mass shooting events in the first place.

Thank you!! Not just for pointing that all out, but for living it. I wish my daughter had more teachers like you. Keep it up. You are definitely making a difference. And thanks again for your honesty and humbleness.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Haha allowing concealed carry is a huge deterrent! Seriously, if there are people allowed to carry and the gun man has no idea who and who is not carrying, they are too afraid… Hell for all they know the concealed carrier will shoot them before they even get a shot off, of the concealed carrier might shot them before they ever hit thier intended target. The entire point of concealed carry is the element of surprise and the deterrent comes from not knowing who is ready to return fire.

Ever wonder why the school shootings never occur when the SRO is standing right there… It is not because the SRO magically prevents shooting. It is because people don’t want to get shot in the face. The shooter will simply wait until they feel safe to shoot…. If every adult in the area could potentially be carrying a firearm then it is hard to feel safe to shoot.

Sorry but the detergent is clear when you walk into the front doors of my child’s school. A big sign reads…. Staff in this building are allowed to carry firearms and are authorized to use them in order to protect the students…

Every state has concealed carry laws in public, the US has more shootings than any industrialized country.

There have been people carrying during shootings that did nothing, for instance there were people carrying at the Aurora theater shooting.

There is no evidence to support that concealed carry in any context is a deterrent.

 

[Nick87]

Honestly man, even if I was allowed to, I likely wouldn’t do it. I’m a teacher, not a police officer. I don’t have the personality to be a cop. I mean, I get all shaky and sweaty when I’m looking down the scope at a deer or elk, so… Plus, my job is complicated enough as it is, and packing in the classroom seems like it would have the potential to be an unnecessary, further-complicating distraction.

I will say that I am sure there are many teachers who would handle carrying at school exceptionally well, if properly and thoroughly trained. I just don’t think I’m one of them, if I’m being honest. But I’m glad we have a full time SRO at my school, who is an actual police officer and great dude.


I’ve done this same thing every year since I became a teacher. The vast majority of kids who hang out in my room at lunch are what many folks would consider outcasts and oddballs. It is a pain in the ass, and my lunches aren’t exactly relaxing, but the middle school cafeteria can be a truly awful place for some kids, and giving them a space to hang out and be themselves is worth it. A number of former students have told me what a difference it made for them.

I don’t write this to pat myself on the back, my point is that there are many things that so many teachers do everyday to try and make the discomfort and (sometimes) awfulness of being an adolescent more bearable for our students that most people (even the kids’ parents) don’t have any clue about. Because, IMO, that is what teachers, in large part, are there for—not for being armed security. Most of us are softies at heart, who just want to help kids learn, grow, and feel like they belong. Sometimes this requires that we be tough and set firm boundaries (much like with our own kids) but I don’t know many teachers who have the disposition to be cool or truly effective with a firearm in a chaotic active shooter situation—at least, I think. How can one truly know until the moment arrives? @WYelker and @Desk Pop seem like they know, and I have no problem with that. Just as I, upon honest reflection, am doubtful I possess the qualities necessary to effectively shoot someone in that situation. I have no problem at all with a well-trained, level-headed person with a strong moral compass carrying in any situation. But I damn sure don’t think this is going to do anything to solve whatever cultural rot that is triggering these sort of mass shooting events in the first place.

Thanks for the reply Randy. I suspect the majority of teachers are in the same boat as you are on the topic. Thank you for being a great teacher. I can remember the look on some of those kids faces (and admittedly my own from time to time) trying to figure out where they were gonna sit etc absolute dread. Imagine how much better they could learn and excel if only they didnt have that on their mind 24/7. Growing up I remember there were a couple teachers like that. Just like any profession, there's all kinds. I hope my kids can have more teachers like you.

 

[Nick87]

There is no evidence to support that concealed carry in any context is a deterrent.

I'd have to think it would just like having a police officer there is a deterent? Maybe not idk. Full disclaimer- Our school districts high school does have a a full time police officer there. Which I am totally on board with.

 

[BackofBeyond]

I will say that I am sure there are many teachers who would handle carrying at school exceptionally well, if properly and thoroughly trained.

Well said all around Randy.

And the highlighted sentence is what I was previously trying to point out, and ultimately, why I'm against this specific law, in my home state. The bar for entry is too low.

To truly respond to an active shooter requires a special kind of mentality, and lots and lots of training. The quote/unquote "training" for an enhanced concealed carry permit in the state of Idaho, which I have taken part of, is a joke. In my class specifically there were students (man and wife) that had never shot their pistols. Literally walked into the class with their pistols in the plastic case, carried in a Sportsman's Warehouse bag. The instructor had to teach them the specifics of their pistols - i.e. this is the mag release, here's the safety... They both have the same permit I do and this would be the barrier to entry to carry in a school?

I'm not against people carrying in school - specifically, a highly trained SRO, and actual police officer, who has had 100's upon 1000's of hours of training and experience, and puts 1000's of rounds down range in different settings every year - not Ms. Frizzle who took an 8 hour class (covering mostly the legal ramifications of carrying) and 98 rounds of practice.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Honestly man, even if I was allowed to, I likely wouldn’t do it. I’m a teacher, not a police officer. I don’t have the personality to be a cop. I mean, I get all shaky and sweaty when I’m looking down the scope at a deer or elk, so… Plus, my job is complicated enough as it is, and packing in the classroom seems like it would have the potential to be an unnecessary, further-complicating distraction.

I will say that I am sure there are many teachers who would handle carrying at school exceptionally well, if properly and thoroughly trained. I just don’t think I’m one of them, if I’m being honest. But I’m glad we have a full time SRO at my school, who is an actual police officer and great dude.


I’ve done this same thing every year since I became a teacher. The vast majority of kids who hang out in my room at lunch are what many folks would consider outcasts and oddballs. It is a pain in the ass, and my lunches aren’t exactly relaxing, but the middle school cafeteria can be a truly awful place for some kids, and giving them a space to hang out and be themselves is worth it. A number of former students have told me what a difference it made for them.

I don’t write this to pat myself on the back, my point is that there are many things that so many teachers do everyday to try and make the discomfort and (sometimes) awfulness of being an adolescent more bearable for our students that most people (even the kids’ parents) don’t have any clue about. Because, IMO, that is what teachers, in large part, are there for—not for being armed security. Most of us are softies at heart, who just want to help kids learn, grow, and feel like they belong. Sometimes this requires that we be tough and set firm boundaries (much like with our own kids) but I don’t know many teachers who have the disposition to be cool or truly effective with a firearm in a chaotic active shooter situation—at least, I think. How can one truly know until the moment arrives? @WYelker and @Desk Pop seem like they know, and I have no problem with that. Just as I, upon honest reflection, am doubtful I possess the qualities necessary to effectively shoot someone in that situation. I have no problem at all with a well-trained, level-headed person with a strong moral compass carrying in any situation. But I damn sure don’t think this is going to do anything to solve whatever cultural rot that is triggering these sort of mass shooting events in the first place.

I applaud you, greatly admire you for your care and professionalism ... and moreover THANK-YOU for your important, impactful, albeit underpaid critical work as teacher and mentor!

 

[KG92]

Nobody is forcing guns into the hands of teachers. This law is literally just giving them the ability to exercise a constitutional right that they can in almost any other setting. It’s still their choice.

If you’re going to trust other grown adults to essentially raise your children for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, for over a decade of the most important years of their life, but you’re not going to trust the same adults to carry a gun with them while doing so (again, only if they want to), then you’re not thinking critically.

 

[Trial153]

Think this tread( as well as many on here and countless other places ) illustrates how unhinged and pervasive the gun culture has become. You’re no better than the irrational anti gun crowd blaming all of society’s ills on an object. Instead you think the same object in the hands of a bunch of untrained individuals tossed into what would the most stressful situation they most likely have faced and you expect gun magic to take over.
Unhinged is the right word.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Well said all around Randy.

And the highlighted sentence is what I was previously trying to point out, and ultimately, why I'm against this specific law, in my home state. The bar for entry is too low.

To truly respond to an active shooter requires a special kind of mentality, and lots and lots of training. The quote/unquote "training" for an enhanced concealed carry permit in the state of Idaho, which I have taken part of, is a joke. In my class specifically there were students (man and wife) that had never shot their pistols. Literally walked into the class with their pistols in the plastic case, carried in a Sportsman's Warehouse bag. The instructor had to teach them the specifics of their pistols - i.e. this is the mag release, here's the safety... They both have the same permit I do and this would be the barrier to entry to carry in a school?

I'm not against people carrying in school - specifically, a highly trained SRO, and actual police officer, who has had 100's upon 1000's of hours of training and experience, and puts 1000's of rounds down range in different settings every year - not Ms. Frizzle who took an 8 hour class (covering mostly the legal ramifications of carrying) and 98 rounds of practice.

I agree with your sentiment. It scares me someone thinking theyre tactical tom at school or finding a bit too much purpose in "carrying" at the school.

However, I think this issue is a lot more self policing than people think. I rarely carry, if ever. I know my way around a pistol a lot better than most. I dont know if id trust myself to carry in that situation.... at all period - so if i did id be driven to have a regular weekly practice schedule, more training, for no other reason than i know damn well i couldnt live with a mistake there. I would wager a teacher - around these children for longer than a lot of their parents that year - feel more passionately about it than i do.

The reason i conclude its more self policing than people realize - these incidents dont have a common rate of happening. Theres not an explosion of gun accidents from carrying that ive found or been exposed to - why?

I lived in cody wyoming for a short while. Im not sure what percentage of people carried (open/concealed) there - but ill bet it was at least 30 percent in a lot of crowds. Been that way for years and years there. Somehow - theres not idiots shooting eachother on accident all over the place.

Maybe i underestimate the problems (accidents), or are over estimating the number of people who carry.

 

[WYelker]

Every state has concealed carry laws in public, the US has more shootings than any industrialized country.

There have been people carrying during shootings that did nothing, for instance there were people carrying at the Aurora theater shooting.

There is no evidence to support that concealed carry in any context is a deterrent.

There was no one carrying at the aurora theater. At least not legally. Under state law the theater could and did post that no one is allowed to carry in the theater. Doing so would be a violation of the law and as such would make them a criminal. Risking their carry permit. Show me exactly who was at the theater that day carrying?

There is absolutely no doubt that guns and the ability to have a side arm is a deterrent.

I find it interesting that so many here are anti second amendment.

Do you believe that I have a right to self defense? DO you believe that you have a right to self defense?

Do you have a right to defend you life?

 

[WYelker]

You're dead wrong.

The type of people that commit school shootings, mass shootings, you aren't scaring them with concealed carry.

I have no problem with people carrying all they want, but you're shitting yourself that it's scaring someone from not commiting mass shootings.

Once people are that far down the rabbit hole, they know they aren't getting out alive. They could care less if you're packing.

Show me one mass school shooting that has occurred in a district where the staff have been armed? Furthermore, the data does not lie. When a private citizen responds to a mass shooting the number of victims drops significantly. The FBI data shows that the second armed resistance occurs the victim rate drops. So either way it would appear that having the ability to conceal carry does in fact help prevent crime. As a deterrent and also by decreasing the number of victims...

 

[Trial153]

There was no one carrying at the aurora theater. At least not legally. Under state law the theater could and did post that no one is allowed to carry in the theater. Doing so would be a violation of the law and as such would make them a criminal. Risking their carry permit. Show me exactly who was at the theater that day carrying?

There is absolutely no doubt that guns and the ability to have a side arm is a deterrent.

I find it interesting that so many here are anti second amendment.

Do you believe that I have a right to self defense? DO you believe that you have a right to self defense?

Do you have a right to defend you life?

Congrats you got an A+ in False Dichotomy class. You’re a great candidate to carry in school. Enjoy the trampoline.

 

[KG92]

Think this tread( as well as many on here and countless other places ) illustrates how unhinged and pervasive the gun culture has become. You’re no better than the irrational anti gun crowd blaming all of society’s ills on an object. Instead you think the same object in the hands of a bunch of untrained individuals tossed into what would the most stressful situation they most likely have faced and you expect gun magic to take over.
Unhinged is the right word.

speaking of false dichotomies….

 

[BuzzH]

Show me one mass school shooting that has occurred in a district where the staff have been armed? Furthermore, the data does not lie. When a private citizen responds to a mass shooting the number of victims drops significantly. The FBI data shows that the second armed resistance occurs the victim rate drops. So either way it would appear that having the ability to conceal carry does in fact help prevent crime. As a deterrent and also by decreasing the number of victims...

It helps in fantasyland.

 

[Trial153]

speaking of false dichotomies….

Ah no. The gun culture in America is totally unhinged. No more or less than the antigun camp.

 

[WYelker]

Honestly man, even if I was allowed to, I likely wouldn’t do it. I’m a teacher, not a police officer. I don’t have the personality to be a cop. I mean, I get all shaky and sweaty when I’m looking down the scope at a deer or elk, so… Plus, my job is complicated enough as it is, and packing in the classroom seems like it would have the potential to be an unnecessary, further-complicating distraction.

I will say that I am sure there are many teachers who would handle carrying at school exceptionally well, if properly and thoroughly trained. I just don’t think I’m one of them, if I’m being honest. But I’m glad we have a full time SRO at my school, who is an actual police officer and great dude.


I’ve done this same thing every year since I became a teacher. The vast majority of kids who hang out in my room at lunch are what many folks would consider outcasts and oddballs. It is a pain in the ass, and my lunches aren’t exactly relaxing, but the middle school cafeteria can be a truly awful place for some kids, and giving them a space to hang out and be themselves is worth it. A number of former students have told me what a difference it made for them.

I don’t write this to pat myself on the back, my point is that there are many things that so many teachers do everyday to try and make the discomfort and (sometimes) awfulness of being an adolescent more bearable for our students that most people (even the kids’ parents) don’t have any clue about. Because, IMO, that is what teachers, in large part, are there for—not for being armed security. Most of us are softies at heart, who just want to help kids learn, grow, and feel like they belong. Sometimes this requires that we be tough and set firm boundaries (much like with our own kids) but I don’t know many teachers who have the disposition to be cool or truly effective with a firearm in a chaotic active shooter situation—at least, I think. How can one truly know until the moment arrives? @WYelker and @Desk Pop seem like they know, and I have no problem with that. Just as I, upon honest reflection, am doubtful I possess the qualities necessary to effectively shoot someone in that situation. I have no problem at all with a well-trained, level-headed person with a strong moral compass carrying in any situation. But I damn sure don’t think this is going to do anything to solve whatever cultural rot that is triggering these sort of mass shooting events in the first place.

I do not know how I will react. There is no way to know until it actually happens. But I do know this, I would rather have the tool and the option. I might run liked a scared chicken, I don't know how I might react to a fire, but I train every year using a fire extinguisher and I have access all the time...

Just like you I have no problem with people carrying. Even in a school assuming they meet the requirements to do so legally.

I would argue that none of this is about preventing the situation, although there is data that suggest allowing concealed carry is a deterrent to crime. How you can measure its effectiveness is hard to say. But I believe there is overwhelming evidence that a gunman prefers a soft target. There is a reason why they pick certain locations. If you are unhinged and ready to commit a mass shooting... Which are you picking. A school where there are multiple SROs on campus or school with none or one? Are you picking a location where a concealed carrier can carry or a place where they are forbidden?

Until it happens no one knows how things will happen, who will react in what way. But I prefer the option to stand and resist over the hide in the corner...

It is interesting because starting this month, I will be instructing 4H kids 3 nights a week shooting. 22 pistol, 22 Rifle, Air Rifle and Air Pistol. I would venture that most here would celebrate that I am one of the 4H firearms instructors. That not only I am trusted to have a fire arm around kids, but I am trusted to have (up to 12 due to facility limits) kids on a firing line, supervising and coaching them. But again somehow having a CC in school is bad.

FYI my kids district they have placed a biometric safe in each classroom and in each common area. The staff typically don't carry on their person except entering, exiting the facility and when they are on duty outside of their "normal" area. A few of the safes are visible, for example in the gym. But most are hid from students/public. Some are in offices, under desk, etc.

I can say this... When the district passed the ability to carry. 86% of the students surveyed supported the idea. 6% were opposed. 8% were not sure(this was the high school paper survey) so not exactly high end. I would be interested if today a few years later, if the numbers are the same?

I do know that the district I work in, the students I serve, they overwhelmingly support carry by staff. Often I hear that they wished they were like the neighboring district. Students trust teachers, they want the schools to protect them and they want to feel safe. In my community, rural WY, they have no issue with staff carry given certain parameters.

I also agree that this is about personal choice, no one is forcing anyone to carry... It is just an option. There are some who cant stand the idea and just thinking about a gun makes them weird. Then there are others who shoot regularly, who help coach...

 

[noharleyyet]

Ah no. The gun culture in America is totally unhinged. No more or less than the antigun camp.

I'm assuming you own guns, does that lump you in with the unhinged gun culture...I mean, since you're using broad strokes.

 

[BuzzH]

I agree with your sentiment. It scares me someone thinking theyre tactical tom at school or finding a bit too much purpose in "carrying" at the school.

However, I think this issue is a lot more self policing than people think. I rarely carry, if ever. I know my way around a pistol a lot better than most. I dont know if id trust myself to carry in that situation.... at all period - so if i did id be driven to have a regular weekly practice schedule, more training, for no other reason than i know damn well i couldnt live with a mistake there. I would wager a teacher - around these children for longer than a lot of their parents that year - feel more passionately about it than i do.

The reason i conclude its more self policing than people realize - these incidents dont have a common rate of happening. Theres not an explosion of gun accidents from carrying that ive found or been exposed to - why?

I lived in cody wyoming for a short while. Im not sure what percentage of people carried (open/concealed) there - but ill bet it was at least 30 percent in a lot of crowds. Been that way for years and years there. Somehow - theres not idiots shooting eachother on accident all over the place.

Maybe i underestimate the problems (accidents), or are over estimating the number of people who carry.

30% of people in Cody carry?

I seriously doubt it. Unless it's grabbing the hog leg off the counter when they go to feed their horses or chickens (think grizzly bears).