Stuck Brass

[Redmt]

Well,,,, I guess my forensics is down the tubes. I was going to run some brass cases to load up some hunting loads for A Zone season opener next week. I sized a few and noticed a tiny scratch down one side of the case that wasn't there before. I pulled the die to clean and inspect it and it has a scratch in it. I smooth it up a bit with a Cratex. No problem. Stick it all back together, adjust it out then lube up a nickel case just to see the results. It was a little stiff but I figured it was maybe not enough lube so back it off and rip the ejector ring off the case. This baby is stuck like no other. I went through all my stuck case tricks and it just got worse. No biggie so far I'll just get another die from RCBS as they are pretty close, ship very fast but are out of 6.5 dies. I have a Lee set but they are crap. I hays Hornady set coming through Amazon that should be here Wednesday. Crap.

 

[manitou1]

Carbon ring, temp sensitivity or dissimilar metal weld (bullets welding to brass... it's a thing and I have experienced it) are the three top culprits to look at.

To avoid bullet weld, if you load ammo in advance like many do, load them a bit long (.003-.005 give or take) and at the beginning of the season put your hunting rounds through your seater and break the weld by seating them to your desired depth.

 

[std7mag]

I have a Lee set but they are crap. I hays Hornady set coming through Amazon that should be here Wednesday. Crap.

Oh, please do tell what exactly makes a Lee die set "crap".

I have 17 sets of Lee dies going from 9mm Luger through 7mm Rem Mag and 45-70.
Been using them for 15 years or so.
Never had to send one back. Never had to call customer service.

I've had my share of issues with RCBS, and their customer service that I will never buy one again.

 

[Redmt]

Oh, please do tell what exactly makes a Lee die set "crap".

I have 17 sets of Lee dies going from 9mm Luger through 7mm Rem Mag and 45-70.
Been using them for 15 years or so.
Never had to send one back. Never had to call customer service.

I've had my share of issues with RCBS, and their customer service that I will never buy one again.

Interesting. I call RCBS and they treat me like I'm their favorite customer. I called Lee over an issue with my 6.5 dies and they wanted proof of purchase with original receipt. My issue with the diesis they wouldn't size all the way to the ejector ring. The brass would go all the way into the die but sized case wouldn't fit in a case checker. I switched dies to the RCBS with the same case and it sized it correctly. When I talked to Lee they gave me the proof of purchase rules and said the dies were only guaranteed for one year therefore the original receipt was mandatory. RCBS on the other hand is lifetime guarantee no questions asked.

 

[std7mag]

@Redmt,

Interesting.

I had a RCBS die set for straight 284 Win.
Sizing die was over working the neck. The expander wasn't sized for 284 either.
I don't recall the actual measurements but it would have put decent neck tension on a 270.

I contacted RCBS. They asked me why I bought a 6.5-284 die set instead of 284 Win set.
I sent them pictures of the dies that had 284 Win stamped on them.
Their response was that I could buy the correct die set.

 

[Redmt]

Ok I see your frustration but I'd ask the same question. My buddy shot a 6.5-284 . As I remember the dies were marked 284 also but the box was 6.5-284. Still a mismarked box is different than dies that are built incorrectly.

 

[grizzly63]

Did you drill out the primer pocket and tap for 1/4 -20 bolt and use a socket to pull case from the die? Thanks for helping prevent a fire.

 

[std7mag]

I will note my frustration with Lee is their "280AI" die set.
It's not the SAAMI standard 280AI.

They don't fully explain what exactly is different, just that their set is not SAAMI.

My friend did have issues with his RCBS 284 Win dies also.
Wouldn't size the body.
He found a deal on some "once fired" Winchester cases.
Sized them in the RCBS & wouldn't chamber.
I sized them in the Forester set I got & worked fine.

If I can find them, I get Forester first. If not I've been getting Redding dies lately.

Although my last 2 sets were Lee.
4 die sets for 45 Colt & 45-70.

Anyways, to your original issue.
I don't think it was caused by your dies.
I reload nickle plated cases also. Just be vigilant as heck for scratches or split necks.

If you have to play Whack-A-Mole to open your bolt, is a sure sign of pressure.

Different brand of case, or even different lot numbers can have an influence on internal volume.

 

[Redmt]

Did you drill out the primer pocket and tap for 1/4 -20 bolt and use a socket to pull case from the die? Thanks for helping prevent a fire.

Oh yeah. That's my #1 fix. It was way too stuck.

 

[Redmt]

I will note my frustration with Lee is their "280AI" die set.
It's not the SAAMI standard 280AI.

They don't fully explain what exactly is different, just that their set is not SAAMI.

My friend did have issues with his RCBS 284 Win dies also.
Wouldn't size the body.
He found a deal on some "once fired" Winchester cases.
Sized them in the RCBS & wouldn't chamber.
I sized them in the Forester set I got & worked fine.

If I can find them, I get Forester first. If not I've been getting Redding dies lately.

Although my last 2 sets were Lee.
4 die sets for 45 Colt & 45-70.

Anyways, to your original issue.
I don't think it was caused by your dies.
I reload nickle plated cases also. Just be vigilant as heck for scratches or split necks.

If you have to play Whack-A-Mole to open your bolt, is a sure sign of pressure.

Different brand of case, or even different lot numbers can have an influence on internal volume.

I think no matter what brand you get sometimes there's going to be an issue. Your lucky with Lee never having to deal with a problem. All of my RCBS problems have been self inflicted. My Lee problem was a manufacturing issue.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I'm sitting there eating my lunch, minding my own business and my other half hollers "smoke" the same time the Watch Duty app goes off. SHIT, it's a neighbor 1/2 mile away. So much for lunch. I blasted over with a dozer right down the county road. I got a break cut around the east side. After a bit the Cal Fire dozer get there and I'm heading home. I took these when I got back. You can see my dozer line around the fire. I'm too old for this crap.View attachment 335140View attachment 335141View attachment 335142

You sir would be a good neighbor to have around!

 

[antelopedundee]

Carbon ring, temp sensitivity or dissimilar metal weld (bullets welding to brass... it's a thing and I have experienced it) are the three top culprits to look at.

To avoid bullet weld, if you load ammo in advance like many do, load them a bit long (.003-.005 give or take) and at the beginning of the season put your hunting rounds through your seater and break the weld by seating them to your desired depth.

Could bullet weld ever be strong enough to collapse the shoulder on an AI case rather than bump the bullet back?

 

[antelopedundee]

Well,,,, I guess my forensics is down the tubes. I was going to run some brass cases to load up some hunting loads for A Zone season opener next week. I sized a few and noticed a tiny scratch down one side of the case that wasn't there before. I pulled the die to clean and inspect it and it has a scratch in it. I smooth it up a bit with a Cratex. No problem. Stick it all back together, adjust it out then lube up a nickel case just to see the results. It was a little stiff but I figured it was maybe not enough lube so back it off and rip the ejector ring off the case. This baby is stuck like no other. I went through all my stuck case tricks and it just got worse. No biggie so far I'll just get another die from RCBS as they are pretty close, ship very fast but are out of 6.5 dies. I have a Lee set but they are crap. I hays Hornady set coming through Amazon that should be here Wednesday. Crap.

I've had the rim pull back on a stuck case giving it an "eared" look. A good reason to remove the decapper stem from the sizing die. You could run a long skinny bolt through it and tap "sometimes kinda hard" the case out. Maybe wouldn't have worked in your NPI case tho.

 

[Redmt]

@std7mag
I just got off the phone with RCBS. I explained to them about my die and how it got further screwed up by myself and a "gunsmith". They said send it in as it was full lifetime guarantee even though it was FUBAR from nothing to do with them. That's great customer service in my book.

 

[Redmt]

@std7mag
I just got off the phone with RCBS. I explained to them about my die and how it got further screwed up by myself and a "gunsmith". They said send it in as it was full lifetime guarantee even though it was FUBAR from nothing to do with them. That's great customer service in my book.

Tried that, I couldn't get the neck sizing mandrel back through the neck.

 

[Sheltowee]

That is 100% correct.

Probably a little easier with an M4 when you can mortar the charging handle, open the upper and drop the BCG to get access to the chamber. I'd guess your paint-can opener trick would work just as well on a SAW or a 240? What was causing the issue-- overheated chamber, poor quality ammunition, all of the above?

 

[Redmt]

Probably a little easier with an M4 when you can mortar the charging handle, open the upper and drop the BCG to get access to the chamber. I'd guess your paint-can opener trick would work just as well on a SAW or a 240? What was causing the issue-- overheated chamber, poor quality ammunition, all of the above?

None of the above. The jury is still out but I'm leaning on over shot cases. I'm waiting for some graphite marking spray coming in.

 

[manitou1]

Could bullet weld ever be strong enough to collapse the shoulder on an AI case rather than bump the bullet back?

Never had it happen. I doubt it unless the brass is over annealed.

 

[antelopedundee]

I've had it happen while neck sizing 3X fired cases with a carbide mandrel that were never annealed.

 

[Liber]

I've had it happen while neck sizing 3X fired cases with a carbide mandrel that were never annealed.

Yes, this problem is most likely due to a mismatch between the chamber, brass, bullet, brass neck diameter, brass neck wall thickness, diameter before seating a bullet and after seating a bullet AND the length of brass before and after firing.

When a cartridge is fired it forms to the chamber, so it is possible that either the brass has expanded to be longer than spec, or something is causing it to hang in the chamber. New and fired cartridges need to be measured.

I highly doubt the nickel plated brass is the problem, because Hornady uses it for their Outfitter line and they fire thousands of rounds with it to pass their QA. I have seen mention on other forums that nickel brass has a tendency to stick, but I think it's people that don't know how to reload properly. I haven't used them for 6.5CM, but have used them for 300BO. I call them Lone Rangers, they sure look like silver cartridges.

Shooters who are not capable of taking those measurements accurately should use new brass, which should extract properly, or better yet buy commercial ammo.

You can find the SAAMI spec at this link, page 39. Both cartridge and chamber specs are there.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.4-CFR-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf