Stealhead are Salmon
- Thread starter Ten Bears
- Start date
Ithaca 37
New member
Now I suppose Ten will tell us a mountain goat is an antelope. 
Ten Bears
New member
I don't think MATTy knows what he's talking about again. Where are your confusing sources (BUZZ?)?
IT, i think I'll leave feeding reader crap up to you. If you want to make that argument, you go ahead.
cjcj
New member
Hey i caught a big ass Dolly Varden[20lbs] out of the Flathead river [middle fork] about 25yrs. ago so is it a trout?????
Erik in AK
New member
Having personally caught/released/killed/grilled/smoked and eaten several members of all 5 species of Pacific Salmon and Rainbow Trout and their sea-run bretheren, the much ballyhoo'd Steelhead has afforded me the opportunity to examine all of these fish up close.....I can say, in the face of Ten's now infamous obstinance, that despite their taxonomic classification in the family Salmonindae, Steelhead are true trout and not true Salmon. Kissin' cousins maybe but no matter a trout is a trout and a salmon is a salmon.
There are several key differences between the two that immediately come to mind:
1. True Pacific salmon die after spawing, steelhead do not
2. True Pacific salmon stop eating once they enter fresh water; steelhead do not
3. True Pacific salmon eggs are a minimum of 4mm in diameter where as trout eggs rarely exceed 3mm in diameter
4. Salmon have heavier skeletons
5. Steelhead have finer scales
Steelhead are trout which would explain why they've been referred to as sea-run rainbows for about 150 years.
Cutthroat Trout, Arctic Char, Dolly Varden(Bull Trout to you western guys) and Brookies all have sea-run strains (Dollys and Brookies are Char not true trout) and yet they are not salmon.
I guess the world was flat because the maps said so...............
There are several key differences between the two that immediately come to mind:
1. True Pacific salmon die after spawing, steelhead do not
2. True Pacific salmon stop eating once they enter fresh water; steelhead do not
3. True Pacific salmon eggs are a minimum of 4mm in diameter where as trout eggs rarely exceed 3mm in diameter
4. Salmon have heavier skeletons
5. Steelhead have finer scales
Steelhead are trout which would explain why they've been referred to as sea-run rainbows for about 150 years.
Cutthroat Trout, Arctic Char, Dolly Varden(Bull Trout to you western guys) and Brookies all have sea-run strains (Dollys and Brookies are Char not true trout) and yet they are not salmon.
I guess the world was flat because the maps said so...............
BuzzH
Well-known member
Erik, thanks for the info, but you're wasting your time with ten beers. Hes hell-bent on making steelhead into salmon, which they are not.
Theres plenty of proof to the contrary, but you'll never convince an idiot like that.
Theres plenty of proof to the contrary, but you'll never convince an idiot like that.
Ten Bears
New member
When they are recognized as taxonomically different, then I wil recognize them as different, but until then, steelhead are salmon. What's a matter boys, the science you so often attempt to flaunt not good enough for you now?
BuzzH
Well-known member
They are taxonomically different, did you forget to read Nemonts post?
You dont think that two different and distinct species are not taxonomically different?
Ten beers, pay close attention next year when you're busy repeating 3rd grade biology.
You dont think that two different and distinct species are not taxonomically different?
Ten beers, pay close attention next year when you're busy repeating 3rd grade biology.
Ten Bears
New member
BUZZ, what part of they are in the same genus is so difficult for you to accept? They differ in species.
BuzzH
Well-known member
That makes them taxonomically distinct from one another...two different species. Most third graders know things like that.
LMAO Ten....
The ones that tout they want to see proof in writing from other sources the most, show the least here. Reputable sources, not some news article, from actual papers written by those in the field that are the only ones that know the real and living truth.
I wouldn't suppose they will, when the can find nothing they can use to dispute some one, it comes down to the playground bully antics....
To bad those tactics (Tack Ticks for Buzz) just don't or won't work. Such nonsense even detracts from any further arguments they may produce later on by lowering their status in the eyes of others. All of that collage going to waste by reverting to their childhood ways...
The ones that tout they want to see proof in writing from other sources the most, show the least here. Reputable sources, not some news article, from actual papers written by those in the field that are the only ones that know the real and living truth.
I wouldn't suppose they will, when the can find nothing they can use to dispute some one, it comes down to the playground bully antics....
To bad those tactics (Tack Ticks for Buzz) just don't or won't work. Such nonsense even detracts from any further arguments they may produce later on by lowering their status in the eyes of others. All of that collage going to waste by reverting to their childhood ways...
BuzzH
Well-known member
Elkcheese,
You should maybe sit in on ten beers third grade biology course next year too. That way you could learn the reason for classifying species that has been accepted by the scientific communities world wide.
I know you and ten beers struggle with anything to do with science, but if you try real hard and you two study enough, maybe, just maybe you'll pass the third grade course.
You should maybe sit in on ten beers third grade biology course next year too. That way you could learn the reason for classifying species that has been accepted by the scientific communities world wide.
I know you and ten beers struggle with anything to do with science, but if you try real hard and you two study enough, maybe, just maybe you'll pass the third grade course.
Ten Bears
New member
BUZZ/MATTy, what is the very definition of salmon? Never mind, here is my supporting material. Please refute it with other supported material, not your opinion.
BUZZ, steelhead are no more (specially) different then chinook are from coho, but they are still salmon. Please have a talk with MATTy, I think you 2 spent way to much money, for the learning you guys received there in montana. Maybe if you sit down with old grampa IT, he'll make you guys feel better.
By the very definition Steelhead are salmon. You can argue you OPINION all day, but you need to have supported material to refute the topic.
BUZZ, steelhead are no more (specially) different then chinook are from coho, but they are still salmon. Please have a talk with MATTy, I think you 2 spent way to much money, for the learning you guys received there in montana. Maybe if you sit down with old grampa IT, he'll make you guys feel better.
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
TB, I'm confused...if a steelhead is a salmon, why does your "supporting material" say the definition of a steelhead is: "The anadromous variety of the rainbow trout?"
Nemont
Well-known member
Doesn't ever say they are salmon just related to salmon. Always says Steelhead are trout.
Nemont
Ten Bears
New member
WH, because scientifically rainbow trout are still named as salmon also (by genus). Evidently being of the rainbow trout variety doesn't exclude the fish from also being of the salmon genus. I have found nothing that says trout aren't salmon, but by definition they must be anadromous ("characteristically swimming from salt to fresh water to spawn") to be of the salmon variety.
MATTy, all that NEMONT has posted is evidence why they should be named as a seperate genus, however, as long as they are in the same GENUS as the other salmons, steelhead are salmon.
As defined by Idaho fishing regulations steelhead are ranbow trout exceeding 20" in length. Does that mean that all rainbow trout over 20" have gone to the ocean and returned NO, nor does it mean that all "steelhead" returning from the ocean exceed 20". http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/fish/rules/steel.pdf
MATTy, all that NEMONT has posted is evidence why they should be named as a seperate genus, however, as long as they are in the same GENUS as the other salmons, steelhead are salmon.
As defined by Idaho fishing regulations steelhead are ranbow trout exceeding 20" in length. Does that mean that all rainbow trout over 20" have gone to the ocean and returned NO, nor does it mean that all "steelhead" returning from the ocean exceed 20". http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/fish/rules/steel.pdf
Ten Bears
New member
By definition, trout are not excluded from being salmon.
Why should being a trout make it not a salmon? Are the landlocked chinook and kokanee (sockeye) trout or salmon, or does it really matter?
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
They are all fish, can we all agree on that much? |oo
