Speed vs bloodshot

[LaSportsman]

Skipping those not all bad. mtmuley

I've purposely never clicked on any of those threads.

 

[kwyeewyk]

So when you're talking "slow" for your hand loads, how does that compare to factory ammo? Similar to high end/high velocity factory ammo or similar to standard average velocity factory ammo?

 

[diamond hitch]

The Hogdon book indicates a mid 2700fps for a 175 gr 7 mag. I've never had access to a chronograph. I haven't bought box of factory since 1982. Mid-range?

 

[ImBillT]

There are many ways to kill, and velocity is not a requirement. That said, 99% of hunters kill by causing blood loss. The more capillaries you rupture, the faster the blood will be lost. I prefer to keep that destruction in portions of the animal that I wasn’t going to eat anyway(lungs).

A “rib to rib” shot will not cause tremendous meat lost unless those ribs happened to lie under the shoulders. Even a basketball diameter would, if it’s through the lungs and avoids the shoulders, wound not cause the loss of more than 2-3% of the meat on a decent sized mule deer.

I do like flank meat though. It’s under rated.

 

[std7mag]

What grain bullet, what twist? mtmuley

I believe it was a 1:7 twist, 30" barrel shooting the 162gr at advertized 3,050 ish fps.

 

[mtmuley]

I believe it was a 1:7 twist, 30" barrel shooting the 162gr at advertized 3,050 ish fps.

Hmmm. Doesn't seem that stressful. mtmuley

 

[Don Fischer]

Something that always seemed to me is that when a bullet with a plastic tip hit's something, the tip has to go somewhere. With the monolithic bullet the tip was added to insure expansion as there were report's if them without the tip not expanding but rather closing up. Winchester in a ad I rear said that was why they use the tip. With cup and core bullet's it seem's to me people like them because they increase the BC which really doesn't matter for the majority as they shouldn't be shooting at ranges where it might make a difference in the first place. In lighter weight bullet's my short experience is they really explode the bullet. I use the 75gr V-Max in one of my 243's and the bullet blows up going through 2" foam target backer at 200yds! Nosler had an early problem with report's of bullet's blowing up early on with those plastic tip's. Suppose to have fixed the problem. I have heard of some of the Hornady tipped bullet's blowing up but never experienced it with a big gme bullet as I simply don't use them on big game. Best I can tell is that the tip is about chasing the big BC in hope's of making a bullet that drops 40" at 1000yds drop only 38" in theory making it flatter shooting. I have shot Hornady cup and core bullet's on big game for close to 50yrs, they just work, no reason to change. I don't and never have shot at big game over 300yds but one time and that was 330yds to say I did it. Most my game has been shot at well under 250yds. The need for a tipped bullet is more imagined than real! In my view the best tip I ever saw for a game bullet was the Rem core-lock! Very little exposed lead but will only kill an animal at 1000yds if you hit it properly! The better BC argument is lost on me but seem's to be a big selling point with a lot of people. The plastic tip doesn't excite me either other than varmint bullet's of monolithic bullet's which I don't use. Lot of people like the tip on bonded bullet's. Take a tuffer bonded bullet and get it to work by putting a plastic tip in it. I guess that makes sense just not to me! When Speer brought out the mag tip, they advertised it showing what a bullet look's like coming out of a rifle barrel, high speef photogrphy. Looks for all the world like a core-lock!

On the up side if you believe you need a plastic tip in your bullet to think your 500yd cartridge is flat shooting, go for it. Place the bullet properly and it will kill well!

 

[std7mag]

One of these days we'll bring you into the 21st century, Don...

 

[DamascusSteel]

The only time I've seen blood shot meat coming from a 270 is when I hit the opposite shoulder on the pass through. Hornady interlock going probably 2800 to 2900 fps

 

[88man]

Wow, this thread derailed faster than an Amtrak train!

I use almost exclusively the "frangible tipped bullets".
Have had great success with them, with only one instance of destroyed meat.
And that was hit in the shoulder.

While i still like and use the Nosler Ballistic Tip, i've tried and liked bullets that "come apart" also with good results. Namely the Berger Hunting VLD.

I've only seen evidence of a bullet exploding once. That the Hornady ELD line from a 7mm Rem Mag with fast twist barrel.
Bullet goes about 50 yards down range and explodes.. Never makes it to the target.
Rather spectacular when it happen!

shoot a 50grn hornaday sxsp out of a 22-250 and sometimes those 5 shot groups are missing shots. Its designed for 222mag velocities

 

[88man]

I have killed lots of big game and have butchered big game from many friends and have never found a correlation between velocity and blood shot meat. Heck I think some of the most blood shot meat has come from bow kills.

 

[std7mag]

Full sized Chevy van at 55 mph....

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

Like the OP, I am a meat hunter. I hate blood shot meat. So I aim for double lungs just like when I'm bowhunting, and try to use loads that are slow and sure to make two holes. If I have to do a little blood trailing, that doesn't bother me at all. I'd much rather spend 30 min. blood trailing a deer than to lose 1/4 of the meat.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

I like my bullets like I like my women. Heavy and slow.

easier to catch that way, and more appreciative too.

 

[RKstillhunt'n]

When I first started reloading, my first response was faster was better. I was loading IMR 4831 for a bolt action. I experienced primer flattening and other less than desirable visuals as I danced above recommended powder levels. After a few years I changed to a BAR for faster recovery in the jungles. At first note, I was shocked that the gun kicked out the brass with flames still present on the ground. I inquired and was advised to try H4350 given the short distance to the gas port for ejection. Someplace in there I actually read the Hodgdon reloading book and learned about how changes in loads could make the groupings open up and tighten. That velocity was interesting but it didn't have a direct correlation to accuracy. I found by accident that a little slower bullet was more accurate and again by accident, caused less bloodshot.

About that time, my friend shot a nice meat buck with a 300 win mag again loaded to painful velocities. I helped him skin it out and found bloodshot not only between the muscles but in the muscles with a rib to rib shot. The meat loss was horrible. After discussion of my accidental discoveries, he slowed his rounds down, experimented with 220 gr bullets and also found better accuracy and bloodshot with slightly slower bullets.

My goal has always been more meat in the freezer vs trophy and I hunt in dense forest cover but occasionly I get a 300+ yd shot in a meadow.

I have brought this up with some and was informed bloodshot was irrelevant and they purposely shot through both shoulders so they had less to pack out with a quicker anchor. I guess I'm just not wired that way.
In times of higher velocity and lighter bullets, I'm likely not to change. I'm just sharing options. Your choice!

I mean a .223 55 grain SP will drop deer, hogs, coyotes, all day long. The big bore belted magnums are for the pump in the mirror at the gym.

 

[ImBillT]

Like the OP, I am a meat hunter. I hate blood shot meat. So I aim for double lungs just like when I'm bowhunting, and try to use loads that are slow and sure to make two holes. If I have to do a little blood trailing, that doesn't bother me at all. I'd much rather spend 30 min. blood trailing a deer than to lose 1/4 of the meat.

1/4 of the meat? Are you shooting them in @$$ with a cannon?

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

1/4 of the meat? Are you shooting them in @$$ with a cannon?

That seems like a silly question.

1/4 is based on what I've seen if I put a cup and core through the shoulders. Lots and lots of bloodshot meat and bone fragments everywhere. I've seen complete shoulders turned to bloodshot hamburgers and if you've been around deer hunting very much, you have as well. If you enjoy eating bone fragments, lead fragments and bloodshot meat, then you probably don't mind this as much as I do. Double lung with copper is how I roll these days. Zero wasted meat and no lead aftertaste.

 

[ImBillT]

That seems like a silly question.

1/4 is based on what I've seen if I put a cup and core through the shoulders. Lots and lots of bloodshot meat and bone fragments everywhere. I've seen complete shoulders turned to bloodshot hamburgers and if you've been around deer hunting very much, you have as well. If you enjoy eating bone fragments, lead fragments and bloodshot meat, then you probably don't mind this as much as I do. Double lung with copper is how I roll these days. Zero wasted meat and no lead aftertaste.

There was zero meat lost on the entry side. Just a pinhole in. Couldn’t find the hole in the cape. About the front 1/3 of the lung was liquified. Still got the heart out in good shape. It’s hard to see in the picture, but if you zoom in, you can see the heart. It’s in perfect shape, just covered in bits of lung. Second picture is the off side after removing the shoulder. First and third are after removing the rest of the meat. Fragments exited the rib cage, but did not enter the shoulder. Lost zero shoulder meat on that side too. Lost 5-6lbs of brisket meat. Maybe less. Let’s say I lost half the brisket/rib meat on that side. What’s that? 10-12lbs? Probably less. 129+12=141. 12/141=8.5% that’s not anywhere near 1/4, and rib meat, while perfectly good, is not the best meat on a deer.

Total boneless meat yield on that buck was 129lbs. The portion of the brisket/rib meat that was bloodshot stayed in the field and did not get weighed. Didn’t eat any bloodshot meat or bone or bullet fragments. Bullet was a 190gr Berger VLD at a muzzle velocity of 2975fps. Impact was at 353yds.

Last pic is a whitetail doe. Same bullet and cartridge. Entry can’t be found. Exit was the size of a baseball through the ribs. Lost maybe 1-2lbs of rib meat. Practically nothing.

Yes you can lose more by shooting them in the shoulder than on a double lung, but not 1/4 of the animal!

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

There was zero meat lost on the entry side. Just a pinhole in. Couldn’t find the hole in the cape. About the front 1/3 of the lung was liquified. Still got the heart out in good shape. It’s hard to see in the picture, but if you zoom in, you can see the heart. It’s in perfect shape, just covered in bits of lung. Second picture is the off side after removing the shoulder. First and third are after removing the rest of the meat. Fragments exited the rib cage, but did not enter the shoulder. Lost zero shoulder meat on that side too. Lost 5-6lbs of brisket meat. Maybe less. Let’s say I lost half the brisket/rib meat on that side. What’s that? 10-12lbs? Probably less. 129+12=141. 12/141=8.5% that’s not anywhere near 1/4, and rib meat, while perfectly good, is not the best meat on a deer.

Total boneless meat yield on that buck was 129lbs. The portion of the brisket/rib meat that was bloodshot stayed in the field and did not get weighed. Didn’t eat any bloodshot meat or bone or bullet fragments. Bullet was a 190gr Berger VLD at a muzzle velocity of 2975fps. Impact was at 353yds.

Last pic is a whitetail doe. Same bullet and cartridge. Entry can’t be found. Exit was the size of a baseball through the ribs. Lost maybe 1-2lbs of rib meat. Practically nothing.

Yes you can lose more by shooting them in the shoulder than on a double lung, but not 1/4 of the animal!

Snopes has got nothing on you bro! Look at you go!

BTW, a boneless meat yield of 129 lbs. equates to a live weight of about 400 lbs. Where you killing 400 lb. deer? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[elevatorman]

I can definitely see the meat loss bloodshot perspective. I personally like the velocity (7mm rem mag) for the other benefits like flatter trajectory and less wind drift.

I have helped minimize meat loss by "hump shooting" whitetails. Essentially placing the round halfway between the top of the shoulder blade and top of back, hitting the spine there, its like a light switch. They fall over instantly. I prefer not having to track them.