Social security by the numbers

[cgasner1]

The reason that is the case is because SS does exist. Prior to that people paid their own way. When you create an escape, more and more take advantage of it. Have kids? The more you do for them, the less they do for themselves. Unfortunately adults are the same.

SS was never meant to be anyone's sole source of retirement income, but that's what it has morphed into. There's a lot of reasons why, but need is rarely one of them.

I am all for helping those who can't help themselves. I donate a good chunk of my income to the things I care about. What I don't care for is the ones who are able but decide to take all the handouts and then want to guilt me into paying more so they can take more.

I agree with all that but also none of it’s fair that’s part of being in a society.i know plenty of people that are my age that won’t have kids but pay taxes for the schools every year. Doesn’t seem very fair to me.

 

[The_Jim]

I don't think you can have this conversation without talking about the SS replacement rate vs. the us birthrate. It takes 2.8 workers to support 1 beneficiary and right now the US birth rate is only 1.64 children/woman.

 

[Straight Arrow]

The answer should be make those who are capable of working, work and be responsible for themselves.

There's a lot of reasons why, but need is rarely one of them.

They are out there, working everyday, many late nights and long hours. You don't recognize them, don't realize they exist, let alone realize their needs as they age. Those workers, many of whom work as hard or harder than you, are the lower wage service workers, more menial but no less important jobs for society and to keep our valued systems clean and functioning. They are a significantly large group whose work we take for granted, but would be disappointed if the work was not completed. Pensions, IRAs, investments such as bantered about here are nonexistent for them. If faced with a medical calamity requiring payment or copayment they face a financial disaster. Many have families and kids needing soccer shoes and all the nowadays standard stuff.

I personally am acquainted with a number of these great folks and feel good that they have at least SS to rely on in whatever retirement they may live.

Likely you won't see them on HuntTalk, as they are out there earning their wage to buy a few eggs!

 

[Nameless Range]

There was another thread on Social Security a year or two back, and a comment that resonated with me was one by @Big Fin

If we're interested in discussing the topic of the original post, fixing social security, we sure seem to have strayed down a peculiar path to discuss such.

Here is how quickly the Social Security Funds will be depleted - https://www.ssa.gov/policy/trust-funds-summary.html

And if anyone wonders how Congress could find the money to fix some of the SS deficit, well, it seems the SS recipients need to make the case that they are "Too Big To Fail" (TBTF). We could solve the funding issue, but the SS recipients aren't Too Big To Fail.

We place sideboards on what are the possible solutions to funding the SS solvency issue. Yet, we never place sideboards in how we bailout, subsidize, or give tax preferences to TBTF crowd. The TBTF economy gets to operate in a different sphere than the rest of us.

Below is a list of the Trillions we've used to bail out Wall Street, the banking industries, insurance grifters, groups to took huge risks on mortgage bets, and a series of other stupid decisions far riskier and far more costly than the guy who made a few bad decisions where he now needs Social Security as a supplement.

Total this up over the years and adjust it for inflation to current dollars and see who our Representative Republic is representing - https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/08/government-financial-bailout.asp

Imagine if these companies in the bailouts were allowed to "tough it out" and Uncle Sam didn't save their sorry asses. The folks running the companies, the investors who should have lost billions, and those rinsing/repeating such might actually have to account for their own risks, bad decisions, and lack of "bootstrapping."

Imagine if instead we put even half of that bailout money in the SS Trust Funds. This SS insolvency discussion wouldn't be happening today.

We are a kidding ourselves that we are a capitalist economy so long as we keep a safety net in place for businesses/people in the "TBTF economy." Yet, about every decade or so, we jump in a with another billion/trillion for the chosen winners. Then we complain about the reasons we have a Social Security deficit.

It has been these bailout events, with 2008-09 in particular, and my years of reading the subsidy via tax laws that closed my mind to any belief in the fallacy that we have a free market economy. Between tax subsidy, cash subsidy, and bailouts for bad decisions, the US is hardly an example of a "free market" as I studied in Econ. We have more socialism for corporations and wealthy folks, the TBTF economy, than we do for working people, but so long as we wrap it in the banner of "capitalism," we seem comfortable denying the socialist structures that support our markets and the companies/individuals benefiting most from such.

I know it surprises some people when I chuckle at their claim of a free market economy here in the US. Maybe I'm just too jaded from seeing small businesses sink/swim (Too Small To Care About) on their own and being an insider to see how winners get chosen via tax policy.

I'm all for less socialism/more capitalism/free markets, especially for the people and entities relying on the gubment's "Too Big To Fail" safety net. They aren't in favor of that. They need that safety net to soften the risks they take while keeping the rewards from such. I don't see too many of those TBTF folks worrying about funding a SS deficit.

We could easily solve the SS/Medicare problem if we wanted to. We just don't make it a priority over bailing out and subsidizing the biggest and wealthiest. Fixing the SS solvency is way higher on my priority list than keeping the TBTF economy artificially propped up.

I am thankful we have a Representative Republic. I'm skeptical as to whose interests are being "represented" these days.

Personally, my retirement will hopefully be funded by SS, a pension, and couple small investments. With every paycheck, I don’t really think about how poor the return is on the amount I’ve contributed to SS relative to what it could be if invested elsewhere, and I don’t think a lot of folks do because they just accept it as a matter of course out of every paycheck they’ve ever earned.

When I read the quoted post above, I don’t come away with a belief that SS couldn’t or shouldn’t be fixed or improved, but that it damn well better sustain in some form else millions will have a real reason be further disenfranchised from their country, which is destabilizing and bad for everyone.

 

[Straight Arrow]

i know plenty of people that are my age that won’t have kids but pay taxes for the schools every year. Doesn’t seem very fair to me.

I suppose by the same gripe logic that you resent paying taxes into noxious weed control because you have no weeds in your yard.

 

[cgasner1]

I suppose by the same gripe logic that you resent paying taxes into noxious weed control because you have no weeds in your yard.

Sure come check my place out

 

[Treeshark]

By global comparison and with very few exceptions, everyone on this website was born on third base.

I’m not saying there isn’t waste and abuse of the system but the fact that I won’t get all the SS I pay out doesn’t bother me all that much.

Keeping the elderly, less fortunate and disabled people out of the poor house and able to live a life of dignity is something the richest country on earth should just do.

 

[Redmt]

Social Security has so many things that are just not right. My wife and I are both on SS as our prime source of income. My wife is 100% Social Security disabled. An issue with that is it was early in her medical career so her SS contributions were low which equals a much lower benefits. My contributions to SS are minimal due to stupidity on my part. I worked many cash paying jobs. I'm not complaining about mine, it's my fault. Our benefits are below what an illegal gets as a government handout or welfare. Most have done nothing to earn it. That's not right.
Our SS went up 2-1/2 % while in the real world inflation went up triple that amount. A few things would help. Drop the income tax on SS. Make the yearly cost of living increase match real world inflation. Match what the illegals get from the same fund that is giving away free money to people who deserve nothing.

 

[BuzzH]

I never have had the phobia about paying taxes.

IMO, what we get for what we pay seems like a pretty good deal.

I really enjoy not having to carry 4 spare tires, 2 sets of shocks, etc. while traveling cross country and take 3 days to get 700 miles down the road.

I think it's only fair to pay taxes to support public schools, whether you have kids or not. Lots of folks that didn't have kids paid taxes for me.

Social security is another I don't mind paying, same with Medicare.

I enjoy having a sheriff, city policy, emts, highway patrol, fire department, civil air patrol, etc etc.


Lots of good shit is paid for via the paltry sums we pay in taxes that apparently the average American thinks just materialize out of thin air.

I have no problem with SS or paying into it or any other taxes I pay. Living in a society comes with a price tag.

 

[Beignet]

Hopefully we’re all old enough to have a conversation about this without someone being like “them people are ruining our way of life!” Hopefully, ha!

Hmmm. Didn’t take long to get to “blame the poor,” apparently. Beignet out.

 

[cgasner1]

I never have had the phobia about paying taxes.

IMO, what we get for what we pay seems like a pretty good deal.

I really enjoy not having to carry 4 spare tires, 2 sets of shocks, etc. while traveling cross country and take 3 days to get 700 miles down the road.

I think it's only fair to pay taxes to support public schools, whether you have kids or not. Lots of folks that didn't have kids paid taxes for me.

Social security is another I don't mind paying, same with Medicare.

I enjoy having a sheriff, city policy, emts, highway patrol, fire department, civil air patrol, etc etc.


Lots of good shit is paid for via the paltry sums we pay in taxes that apparently the average American thinks just materialize out of thin air.

I have no problem with SS or paying into it or any other taxes I pay. Living in a society comes with a price tag.

I guess with the last 10 years all I’ve heard is it won’t be there when I’m ready to withdrawal and it’s hurting. I don’t get why it hasn’t had changes to help fund it. I really don’t understand why it’s not a flat tax that everyone pays with a cap on it for what it pays back seems like it would be the ideal way to fund it

 

[Gerald Martin]

I agree with all that but also none of it’s fair that’s part of being in a society.i know plenty of people that are my age that won’t have kids but pay taxes for the schools every year. Doesn’t seem very fair to me.

How about the folks who do have kids, pay out of pocket for the education of their kids and still pay taxes for the schools every year? It’s especially galling when my daughter has to drive four hours to participate in track meets because she’s not allowed to participate in public school track meets half a mile from her school.

 

[BuzzH]

How about the folks who do have kids, pay out of pocket for the education of their kids and still pay taxes for the schools every year? It’s especially galling when my daughter has to drive four hours to participate in track meets because she’s not allowed to participate in public school track meets half a mile from her school.

Sounds fair to me, you have options...some kids don't.

Ever heard of a 529?

 

[SAJ-99]

The other end of the spectrum would be like a Bezos and consider I pay as much into ss as he does maybe the system needs some tweaking.

I believe because capital gains are not payroll taxes, there is no Oasdi.

For those that don’t want to tax the rich more, please submit a plan on taxing the poor. Would love to read.

 

[cgasner1]

I believe because capital gains are not payroll taxes, there is no Oasdi.

For those that don’t want to tax the rich more, please submit a plan on taxing the poor. Would love to read.

I don’t think most people understand how the super rich get paid

 

[Redmt]

I don’t think most people understand how the super rich get paid

A serious question,,,, where are the dividing lines from "simply rich" , to "super rich", to "are you shitting me rich"?

 

[TN2shot07]

A serious question,,,, where are the dividing lines from "simply rich" , to "super rich", to "are you shitting me rich"?

Fair point, most people are rich compared to someone else’s standards. We as a country are rich, even the poor, compared to many people in the world…

 

[cgasner1]

A serious question,,,, where are the dividing lines from "simply rich" , to "super rich", to "are you shitting me rich"?

When you make enough money that you get paid in stocks instead of cash to avoid taxes I’d say your rich

 

[hank4elk]

Been in SS since I was a kid.
I am collecting a small portion of it now in retirement. I even got a COLA bump.

SS has been robbed by the legislature and never paid back.
The robber Barons pay nothing and get billions in return.

Try and take my SS and Public Lands to fund tax breaks for criminals.
I have nothing to loose but my honor for not defending my country ,again.
This little 140 acres is still America.

 

[Wildabeest]

My contributions to SS are minimal due to stupidity on my part. I worked many cash paying jobs.

Someone who admittedly committed tax fraud complaining about “illegals”. Precious.