Social security by the numbers

[kodiakisland]

SS is nothing more than a government run Ponzi scheme and it really doesn't matter which side of the political fence you are on. The government should not be in the business of providing retirement for the working class.

The reason the contribution amount is capped is because the payout is capped. People go along with it as long as the pain is small. Those who make more already pay more, do they not? I already give the Federal Government far more than they deserve.

If you can work, you should work. The great thing about this country is you get to decide that. You make your choices. You should live with them. Those working hard, making good decisions should not be paying for those who chose otherwise. SS is already biased toward those who pay the least. The more you pay in, the less proportional payment you get back. It's already an unfair tax on those who make more, so why would you want to increase it?

Assisting those who are unable to work is another matter.

 

[MTGomer]

If you look at it as an investment, i.e. if you look at what yourself and your employer has paid on your behalf and what your return will be, compared to index finds, you’ll get angry.

If you look at it as your civic duty of something to pay into, so that others have their basic needs met and politicians have a slush fund to dip into and raid whenever they need it for whatever un transparent cause they need it for, then it’s not so bad.

My thoughts on it are kind of a contradiction. Personally, I wish I could opt out and have my money back to invest privately. But, I realize that many Americans do not make responsible financial decisions, and if we did not force them to contribute to Social Security, and Social Security did not exist, They would have nothing at retirement

 

[MTGomer]

Not to mention that those in the lower brackets, COULD potentially sock away a bit more in their 401's/IRA's.

The entire system is not made to benefit the working class and in particular not the working poor. That's why I've never been a big fan of 401's over a pension. The 401's are great if you can afford to contribute, if you can't you're only getting SS.

I entered the workforce for the most part after pensions went away. What happened/caused this? My parents had pensions from lumber mills. Now, people that work for Google and Microsoft probably don’t have them. Maybe that’s a bad example because some of those people probably have stock plans or something but you get the point. In general, pensions are not offered today compared to in the past.

Is that just boards/shareholders realizing it’s expensive and cutting it, or was there legislation or something else?

 

[BuzzH]

I entered the workforce for the most part after pensions went away. What happened/caused this? My parents had pensions from lumber mills. Now, people that work for Google and Microsoft probably don’t have them. Maybe that’s a bad example because some of those people probably have stock plans or something but you get the point. In general, pensions are not offered today compared to in the past.

Is that just boards/shareholders realizing it’s expensive and cutting it, or was there legislation or something else?

Cheaper for companies, no legislation.

Follow the money, every, single, time.

 

[xgener]

until its follow the money from the government. Then its sit down, shut up and be thankful for all they do for you. Its f big this and f big that, until becomes f the big government. I am 55 and every recession that has hit the people screws the private folks. Government folks never are affected. So I guess an audit of the government is way out of line. Why should they be accountable, they are experts.

 

[LopeHunter]

I began paying social security before was a teen. I worked in agriculture. There were exceptions there including overtime did not happen after 40 hours a week. I worked until retired but not in agriculture after college.

At some point social security rates increased from 1% to 5% to present rate. Also, the tax rate was split into two portions with “hospitalization” then becoming uncapped as a tax while the remaining portion was left capped though the cap edged up over time.

Full retirement age also rose after I began paying taxes.

The capped benefits can be taxed once you retire if you have enough earnings. Up to 85% can be taxed.

So, hospitalization taxes were not capped yet benefits were lessened for me. IRMAA is the mechanism for the Medicare claw back on subsidies. Claw back is an additional tax in all but the name.

I was fortunate in life so make enough that raising my retirement age, charging me more for Medicare and taxing 85% of my benefits in retirement at my income tax rate will still not put me in the poorhouse. I don’t trust any handshake with Uncle Sam, though, on these matters. I just expect more changes are coming.

I won at life. I support uncapping the tax paid by worker and employer and capping the benefit. Just as they did with hospitalization. Fair is not a reality looking down the road and never was.

 

[TN2shot07]

I’m not sure the one pot method, pyramid scheme is working…

I think if we’re going to treat ss as retirement then it needs to be set up that way. I’d feel much more comfortable with the exact same percentages paid into a tsp plan (with investment options) that I couldn’t access under any circumstances until retirement. It should be set up from birth and contributions start from the first job you have.

401k’s are great but as long as you let people have access to it they will raid it. We hired a 28 y/o last week and she was so pumped to have cashed out her previous one when she left her job. The nerd in me wanted to show her the math on what she did…

 

[cgasner1]

If you look at it as an investment, i.e. if you look at what yourself and your employer has paid on your behalf and what your return will be, compared to index finds, you’ll get angry.

If you look at it as your civic duty of something to pay into, so that others have their basic needs met and politicians have a slush fund to dip into and raid whenever they need it for whatever un transparent cause they need it for, then it’s not so bad.

My thoughts on it are kind of a contradiction. Personally, I wish I could opt out and have my money back to invest privately. But, I realize that many Americans do not make responsible financial decisions, and if we did not force them to contribute to Social Security, and Social Security did not exist, They would have nothing at retirement

As far as the investment I’d walk away right now if I could. They keep my money but I don’t give them another penny I’d happily walk away.

The government may have finally just broke me because I’m looking at it more as a civic part I guess. I’m being taxed to death so why not see something good come from it? But I also agree why should I have to pay for other people in such a way. Had this conversation yesterday morning with a buddy also and different guy Thursday. Idk why it’s just been bugging me the last few days probably due to the check im about to write the government again

 

[cgasner1]

I’m not sure the one pot method, pyramid scheme is working…

I think if we’re going to treat ss as retirement then it needs to be set up that way. I’d feel much more comfortable with the exact same percentages paid into a tsp plan (with investment options) that I couldn’t access under any circumstances until retirement. It should be set up from birth and contributions start from the first job you have.

401k’s are great but as long as you let people have access to it they will raid it. We hired a 28 y/o last week and she was so pumped to have cashed out her previous one when she left her job. The nerd in me wanted to show her the math on what she did…

Can’t fix that mentality. I got buddies that have made a killing from being able to roll them elsewhere though

 

[cgasner1]

Not to mention that those in the lower brackets, COULD potentially sock away a bit more in their 401's/IRA's.

The entire system is not made to benefit the working class and in particular not the working poor. That's why I've never been a big fan of 401's over a pension. The 401's are great if you can afford to contribute, if you can't you're only getting SS.

On the 401k aspect why have a cap on it then? 23.5 this year is max why should that number even exist?

 

[kodiakisland]

As far as the investment I’d walk away right now if I could. They keep my money but I don’t give them another penny I’d happily walk away.

The government may have finally just broke me because I’m looking at it more as a civic part I guess. I’m being taxed to death so why not see something good come from it? But I also agree why should I have to pay for other people in such a way. Had this conversation yesterday morning with a buddy also and different guy Thursday. Idk why it’s just been bugging me the last few days probably due to the check im about to write the government again

Yeah, if they'd phase out SS I'd gladly walk from what I've given them. Really it's just another payroll tax anyway.
I look at all the taxes I'm paying for those who aren't working. SS, medicare, EIC, SNAP, HUD, etc. I think I pay enough. I can't even begin to understand those who want me to pay more for no return whatsoever. If one feels they aren't paying enough, there are plenty of non profits to give your extra money to that will redistribute it for you.

 

[cgasner1]

Yeah, if they'd phase out SS I'd gladly walk from what I've given them. Really it's just another payroll tax anyway.
I look at all the taxes I'm paying for those who aren't working. SS, medicare, EIC, SNAP, HUD, etc. I think I pay enough. I can't even begin to understand those who want me to pay more for no return whatsoever. If one feels they aren't paying enough, there are plenty of non profits to give your extra money to that will redistribute it for you.

The other end of the spectrum would be like a Bezos and consider I pay as much into ss as he does maybe the system needs some tweaking.

 

[kodiakisland]

The other end of the spectrum would be like a Bezos and consider I pay as much into ss as he does maybe the system needs some tweaking.

I guarantee he pays far more into the Federal government than most.
The answer shouldn't be make the rich pay more. The answer should be make those who are capable of working, work and be responsible for themselves.

 

[cgasner1]

I guarantee he pays far more into the Federal government than most.
The answer shouldn't be make the rich pay more. The answer should be make those who are capable of working, work and be responsible for themselves.

I agree it shouldn’t be the answer. By chance have you read about the money his first wife has and what she has done with it since the divorce? The current system just seems to be applying the taxes to the working class.

 

[TN2shot07]

I guarantee he pays far more into the Federal government than most.
The answer shouldn't be make the rich pay more. The answer should be make those who are capable of working, work and be responsible for themselves.

For the record, I’m on board. Telling people that they, and not their neighbors, should be responsible for their own future will go over like in the punch bowl. They’d much rather say someone successful should tote the bill…

 

[F250]

I went to the Social Security office 5 years ago to sign up for benefits at age 62. There were over a dozen other people in the waiting room who were there to sign up for benefits. I was the only one who spoke English as my first language. I was also the only one who had spent a lifetime PAYING in to the SS fund. THAT is a problem !!!!

 

[cgasner1]

I went to the Social Security office 5 years ago to sign up for benefits at age 62. There were over a dozen other people in the waiting room who were there to sign up for benefits. I was the only one who spoke English as my first language. I was also the only one who had spent a lifetime PAYING in to the SS fund. THAT is a problem !!!!

That may also be why I have been thinking about it. Saturday night I went out for a party my buddy had for becoming a citizen. He has been here 42 years and finally did the paperwork. His reasoning was he had paid into ss his entire adult life and doesn’t wanna see something change on it in 10 years and lose that benefit. We got him a cake it says “Canadian by birth American by choice”

 

[Nick87]

401k’s are great but as long as you let people have access to it they will raid it.

I couldn't agree more with this. A couple workers and I were talking about this the other day. We still have a pension (union). If we had access to it I'd bet that half or more of the guys I work with would have drained that thing by now. If and that's a big If they had put much into it in the first place.

 

[406dn]

If you look at it as an investment, i.e. if you look at what yourself and your employer has paid on your behalf and what your return will be, compared to index finds, you’ll get angry.

If you look at it as your civic duty of something to pay into, so that others have their basic needs met and politicians have a slush fund to dip into and raid whenever they need it for whatever un transparent cause they need it for, then it’s not so bad.

My thoughts on it are kind of a contradiction. Personally, I wish I could opt out and have my money back to invest privately. But, I realize that many Americans do not make responsible financial decisions, and if we did not force them to contribute to Social Security, and Social Security did not exist, They would have nothing at retirement

I think this is a very good take on the situation.

What no one today has seen is widespread poverty among the elderly. SS did not get created out of a vacuum. Any program that profound had a very large motivation.

The bottom half of earners in our country are basically in survival mode. They have nearly no savings, and very little wealth. Those that don't die along the way are going to end up old, too old to productively work, and some number of years left to live. If SS did not exist, we would have millions of old people unable to pay rent or pay for their basic needs.

 

[kodiakisland]

I think this is a very good take on the situation.

What no one today has seen is widespread poverty among the elderly. SS did not get created out of a vacuum. Any program that profound had a very large motivation.

The bottom half of earners in our country are basically in survival mode. They have nearly no savings, and very little wealth. Those that don't die along the way are going to end up old, too old to productively work, and some number of years left to live. If SS did not exist, we would have millions of old people unable to pay rent or pay for their basic needs.

The reason that is the case is because SS does exist. Prior to that people paid their own way. When you create an escape, more and more take advantage of it. Have kids? The more you do for them, the less they do for themselves. Unfortunately adults are the same.

SS was never meant to be anyone's sole source of retirement income, but that's what it has morphed into. There's a lot of reasons why, but need is rarely one of them.

I am all for helping those who can't help themselves. I donate a good chunk of my income to the things I care about. What I don't care for is the ones who are able but decide to take all the handouts and then want to guilt me into paying more so they can take more.