SidexSide or Over/Under

[BrentD]

I'm in the market for either a 20 or 28 gauge over/under or sidexside. I never thought I'd be interested in a sidexside, but I was handling one over the weekend and really liked the feel of it. My budget is $3k.

Over/under or sidexside?

I've always been a Benelli fan, so I'm seriously contemplating a Benelli or Beretta if I go down the over/under route.

Here is a very nice 20 gauge. This auction house has been good to me in the past.

SKB Model 385, 20 ga. side by side shotgun, 28” VR barrels, Hard case, Japan

SKB Model 385, 20 ga. side by side shotgun. Serial #NS43232, mfg. Japan. Like new condition. 28” vent rib barrels have twin beads, 100% blue. 3” magnum chambers with IC/MOD choke tubes. Frame and trigger guard have 100% silver coin finish with fine scroll engraving with game birds on...

auctions.thegunrunner.com

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

Here is a very nice 20 gauge. This auction house has been good to me in the past.

SKB Model 385, 20 ga. side by side shotgun, 28” VR barrels, Hard case, Japan

SKB Model 385, 20 ga. side by side shotgun. Serial #NS43232, mfg. Japan. Like new condition. 28” vent rib barrels have twin beads, 100% blue. 3” magnum chambers with IC/MOD choke tubes. Frame and trigger guard have 100% silver coin finish with fine scroll engraving with game birds on...

auctions.thegunrunner.com

I like the stock on that one

 

[BrentD]

I like the stock on that one

I do, to a point. I am not a fan of beavertails. Give me a splinter every time. Just a sexiness factor. The other thing I would wonder about if I was hunting with it, is that the wrist grain may be a bit suspect and weak. Maybe. I can't really say for sure, but I would want more pics and then have to think about it some. These guns have through-bolts, that overrides at least some of that concern.

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

I do, to a point. I am not a fan of beavertails. Give me a splinter every time. Just a sexiness factor. The other thing I would wonder about if I was hunting with it, is that the wrist grain may be a bit suspect and weak. Maybe. I can't really say for sure, but I would want more pics and then have to think about it some. These guns have through-bolts, that overrides at least some of that concern.

Agree on the beavertails, I don't like them either. I guess what I meant was that I like the pattern of the wood grain. Looks pretty. What do you mean about the wrist grain?

 

[BrentD]

Agree on the beavertails, I don't like them either. I guess what I meant was that I like the pattern of the wood grain. Looks pretty. What do you mean about the wrist grain?

I find the pattern of coloration the wood in the auction gun very pleasing, but I'm not sure if it is telling me which way the grain runs. It almost appears that the grain runs vertically in the first picture (right side of the wrist).

Edited to add: The beavertail could be easily reshaped to a splinter and recheckered. I would not hesitate to that if I really liked this gun otherwise.

For greater strength, grain should run longitudinally through the wrist and perpendicular to the back of the receiver for greatest strength. The gun below is also and SKB (low grade, model 100,, but identical basic action), one that I restocked (hence the lack of checkering). This has great grain orientation, but it is not quite as flamboyant as the auction gun.

Again, both of guns have through bolts which run completely through the wrist making this grain concern somewhat less critical.

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

I find the pattern of coloration the wood in the auction gun very pleasing, but I'm not sure if it is telling me which way the grain runs. It almost appears that the grain runs vertically in the first picture (right side of the wrist).

Edited to add: The beavertail could be easily reshaped to a splinter and recheckered. I would not hesitate to that if I really liked this gun otherwise.

For greater strength, grain should run longitudinally through the wrist and perpendicular to the back of the receiver for greatest strength. The gun below is also and SKB (low grade, model 100,, but identical basic action), one that I restocked (hence the lack of checkering). This has great grain orientation, but it is not quite as flamboyant as the auction gun. View attachment 265000

Again, both of guns have through bolts which run completely through the wrist making this grain concern somewhat less critical.

That makes sense, never thought about the strength of the stock in relation to the grain direction. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I find the pattern of coloration the wood in the auction gun very pleasing, but I'm not sure if it is telling me which way the grain runs. It almost appears that the grain runs vertically in the first picture (right side of the wrist).

Edited to add: The beavertail could be easily reshaped to a splinter and recheckered. I would not hesitate to that if I really liked this gun otherwise.

For greater strength, grain should run longitudinally through the wrist and perpendicular to the back of the receiver for greatest strength. The gun below is also and SKB (low grade, model 100,, but identical basic action), one that I restocked (hence the lack of checkering). This has great grain orientation, but it is not quite as flamboyant as the auction gun. View attachment 265000

Again, both of guns have through bolts which run completely through the wrist making this grain concern somewhat less critical.

Same problem with Browning A-5 auto. The tang screw through the pistol grip weakens the butt stock at its thinnest place. Besides the recoil punching back on the tang screw, the long recoil action punches forward on it every time the gun finishes cycling. Even with straight grain walnut, wood failure was/is very common at that point. Also, when the barrel slides forward at the end of the cycle, the barrel ring guiding it on the magazine tube slams into bare wood at the top of the fore end. The wood on both ends of the gun doesn't last long. The Brownings, father and son, made several improvements to the A-5 from its introduction in 1900 until 1998 when it was finally discontinued, but for whatever reason simply refused to do anything about the wood issues. Remington finally fixed it when they dropped their Model 11, an A5 clone, in 1947 and introduced the 11-47 that utilized the same long recoil action, but the stock bolted onto the action spring tube behind the butt plate and the fore end was reinforced with a metal tube liner to send the shock of cycling barrel ring directly to the magazine cap. Actually a couple of easy fixes. The downside to Remington's modification was thoroughly cleaning and lubrication of the gun requires removing the butt pad. If you've ever removed a recoil pad, you know what kind of chore that can be, especially if the screws are rusty.

 

[GoGriz]

@BrentD thanks for all your insight and knowledge! A question that I think I know the answer to, but I want to double check is - if I get an older model SxS from Europe, can I safely shoot normal steel shot loads in them without damage?

 

[BrentD]

@BrentD thanks for all your insight and knowledge! A question that I think I know the answer to, but I want to double check is - if I get an older model SxS from Europe, can I safely shoot normal steel shot loads in them without damage?

The short answer is probably not. If it is a vintage gun, then for sure no.

On the other hand, my first double was/is a Merkel model 8 12 gauge (made in 1986). I had Briley install thin wall chokes and lengthen the forcing cones. I have shot quite a lot of steel in it. Briley says it is good so long as I stay with #4 shot or smaller.

I still own and use this gun and it's as good as the day it was born. @wllm even killed a grouse or two with it not too long ago. Being a lefty, he managed to make it double as well, but it's none the worse for wear.

A Merkel like that one, is good with steel - within a certain parameter space.

That said, why not use Bismuth for hunting? While it is costly, it's not crazy expensive given normal hunting quantities. As long as you can use lead for clays you would be good to go.

I even have an English 12 I want to sell... Just saying. But it is definitely not a steel shot gun.

 

[GoGriz]

Thanks for the reply! I am dipping my toe into this world and trying to learn all I can, prior to potentially blowing a bunch of money on the wrong stuff. I’m going to keep researching and looking around with the hopes of putting a few of these old beauties in the gun safe sometime this year.

 

[BrentD]

Thanks for the reply! I am dipping my toe into this world and trying to learn all I can, prior to potentially blowing a bunch of money on the wrong stuff. I’m going to keep researching and looking around with the hopes of putting a few of these old beauties in the gun safe sometime this year.

Enjoy the hunt. It's open season, all year long and there is no impossible to draw tag or bag limit.

I'm planning a major hunt into the backcountry of the Midwest (aka Oklahoma, Tulsa) in about 3 weeks.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

The short answer is probably not. If it is a vintage gun, then for sure no.

On the other hand, my first double was/is a Merkel model 8 12 gauge (made in 1986). I had Briley install thin wall chokes and lengthen the forcing cones. I have shot quite a lot of steel in it. Briley says it is good so long as I stay with #4 shot or smaller.

I still own and use this gun and it's as good as the day it was born. @wllm even killed a grouse or two with it not too long ago. Being a lefty, he managed to make it double as well, but it's none the worse for wear.

A Merkel like that one, is good with steel - within a certain parameter space.

That said, why not use Bismuth for hunting? While it is costly, it's not crazy expensive given normal hunting quantities. As long as you can use lead for clays you would be good to go.

I even have an English 12 I want to sell... Just saying. But it is definitely not a steel shot gun.

I tend to agree for an upland gun just pay for the bismuth, now waterfowl… could get a little pricey.

 

[BrentD]

I tend to agree for an upland gun just pay for the bismuth, now waterfowl… could get a little pricey.

I Bismuth them too. Not so bad. Or have another gun!

But in the grand scheme of things, ammo prices for hunting are pretty small.

Don't forget to factor in that with a really nice well fit double gun, you will shoot a lot better and use less ammo.

There are some other cost savings as well. With a beautiful English double, you will look so good out there, you can wear thrice-over hand-me downs you buy at Goodwill instead of Sitka/Kifaru duds. You will be the style of the marsh and at 1/10th of the cost. Huge savings

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I Bismuth them too. Not so bad. Or have another gun!

But in the grand scheme of things, ammo prices for hunting are pretty small.

Don't forget to factor in that with a really nice well fit double gun, you will shoot a lot better and use less ammo.

There are some other cost savings as well. With a beautiful English double, you will look so good out there, you can wear thrice-over hand-me downs you buy at Goodwill instead of Sitka/Kifaru duds. You will be the style of the marsh and at 1/10th of the cost. Huge savings

Financial advice I can get behind!

 

[BrentD]

Financial advice I can get behind!

Gus the Shorter would be Prouder of you too, eh? That's something.

 

[aballoga]

Question on a "fine" side by side shotgun, European made - why would manufacturer markings be ground off of the rib? Why would it be de-identified to the maker? My speculation is that an engraving mistake was made and it was sold as a defected specimen, not to be associated with a vain maker.

 

[CPAjeff]

Just to circle back on this . . .

I was able to handle a few more shotguns and have marked a sidexside off the list. I've settled on either a Beretta SP in 20 or 28, or a Rizinni BR110 Sporter in 20 or 28.

Thanks everyone for the input!

 

[Don Fischer]

The author simply hasn't looked at and tried enough guns yet! I have had O/U's and have 5 SxS's right now. I'm a SxS guy. Just am no particular reason why. Wait a minute. There is a reason. O/U's have stacked barrels and they have a lot more resistance when swinging the gun on crossing shots. Makes sense to me! Bottom line is you like what you like and the only way to know is to try different guns! What someone else thinks doesn't matter.

 

[Wildfan99]

I'd much rather shoot an O/U.

If I was to buy a SxS, I'd want a wide forearm and single trigger.

 

[BrentD]

I'd much rather shoot an O/U.

If I was to buy a SxS, I'd want a wide forearm and single trigger.

Crazy talk!