Sell me a new truck

[BigTimber]

Chains

I run 4 chains on my F-150 all the time. I just make sure I snug up the front ones, and bungee the extra chain links inside. I have never had an issue hitting the A Arms or the Brake Lines. Even though they look extremely close.

 

[Speeddmn]

That low-rpm torque is super important for what I do and one of my first inquiries. Not only in towing, but riding around in steep hills. If you have to stomp on it to get that torque on a steep grade with a load in the box, your climbing is going to be more like trying to skate uphill.

I always laugh when advertisements claim 350 ft-lb of torque, but in the fine print you read that it needs 4800 rpms to get that much torque. No thanks. I suspect others will be copying whatever it is that Ford has done to get that kind of torque from such a small engine, at such low rpms.

Another "pro" to this truck is the backup assist for backing up to your trailer. I am not sure how that technology works, but it was very impressive for a guy like me who is hooking and dropping trailers all the time, often by myself.

I don't know you if you noticed or even if the 2015's have it. But my 2013 F150 had a zoom on the back up camera. My new GMC dosent and man I really miss that feature. If helps a ton when hooking up a trailer.

 

[PRM]

These guys do what I believe are honest reviews of trucks. The Ford Eco Boost is a towing machine. Especially at higher elevations where the turbos have a significant advantage over a naturally aspirated engine.


http://www.tfltruck.com/tfltruck-hall-ike-gauntlet/

The 3.5 EB in my F150 chugs along at ridiculously low RPMs but pulls great.

 

[Elkmagnet]

The tundra pulls from all four wheels with the touch of a button.

I'd be very surprised if this was true there is a reason no one puts a true locker in the front of an ifs equipped vehicle. I have no knowledge of the tundra diffs but I would be surprised.

 

[Joe Hulburt]

I don't mean to start a brand debate but I'm curious if anyone has owned a Dodge that went past 100,000 miles (one of Randy's expectations) without mechanical failure? I bought a new 2005 3/4 ton thinking that being a 3/4 ton if would hold up better than previous 1/2 tons. All I ever towed was a 19' boat and a two horse trailer but was rewarded with a complete transmission failure at 95,000 miles. To make it worse I just found out I drew a Wyoming pronghorn tag that morning and my wife thought I should buy a new rifle for the hunt. Pulled onto the highway to work and all the sudden forward motion ceased. Had to replace u joints on front hubs twice and main u joints as well all before 100,000. I will never own another Dodge and wouldn't recommend one to anybody who's goal is to own a rig that will perform well past its factory warranty.

 

[sbhooper]

I'd be very surprised if this was true there is a reason no one puts a true locker in the front of an ifs equipped vehicle. I have no knowledge of the tundra diffs but I would be surprised.

Be surprised. Ask the dealer about it and go try one out. Mine spins all four tires in the snow/mud or whatever, as long as you turn off the stupid traction systems. Monster system.

 

[jvanderlinde]

I think it would be incredibly hard to turn/steer a vehicle if the the front diff is locked, look at all the UTVS and ATVS with front diff lock. Just my 2 cents, i could be wrong

 

[PRM]

I do not believe the Tundra comes with a locking diff.

 

[WyOpitz]

I do not believe the Tundra comes with a locking diff.

Correct, it has a limited-slip.

 

[Big Fin]

I do not believe the Tundra comes with a locking diff.

From all I have determined, you are correct. It comes with something called ALSD, Automatic Limited Slip Differential. I asked the sales guy about it and he said it was the same as a locking differential, but from all of my research it is not. Probably one of the biggest hits against the Tundra. I have found a company that can install a true locking differential in a Tundra.

Which begs the questions, "Why would Toyota not do that from the start?" My opinion is what I mentioned prior; most off-road testing and design is based on rock and sand, not snow and ice. I suspect the ALSD works great in sand. Most the truck review sites claim it works good, but none of them tested it on a snow-drifted frozen 12% Wyoming slope with 1,500# of people and gear. That is when you need a locking differential. Or when you break through a iced-over creek like happened last week and you find yourself in ice, water, and mud up to the door panels. You want all of it pulling you out of there, not whatever the computer thinks you need. Most of us are experienced enough to know more of what we need and when we need it than the computer that is probably programmed by some dude who thinks off-road demand is driving your truck from the parking lot down to the surf to pick up your board.

I made that mistake once. I was in a hurry to buy a new Titan before year-end, for tax purposes. They told me they could trick it out the same as the Pro4X package, except for the locking differential. Big mistake. It cost us a day of hunting in Nevada. Thanks to NVLongbow, the day was rescued. If I had a locking rear differential, I could have backed out of this hole. Rather, the rear end was sitting on decent tracking, but without the locking rear differential, it did not have the ability to pull the front end out of this spring that looked like a small mud hole from the driver's seat.

I don't have a "before" pic, but here is a "in the thick of it" pic. Good thing photos do not have audio, or this would be adult-rated.


Here it is, with all kinds of brush and rocks under the jack so we could lift and fill underneath. It would sink into the soup as soon as we dropped the jack, even with filling debris under the tires.


Here is the "after" pic. Finally, we cobbled together enough straps, wire, and rope that NVLongbow could pull me out with his little 4-banger Jeep. Note the foreground where you see rocks sunk into the mud. Not sure how many yards of softball sized rocks we hauled to find a bottom to that hole, but it was a lot.


Needless to say, that was the last season for that Titan without the locking rear differential. It had 56K miles on it when I traded it and it was running great. I still see it cruising the street of Bozeman, six years later. But, I vowed to never again be caught without a locking rear differential on a truck.

It is that issue that is going to be a challenge for me to get comfortable with buying a Tundra; is the Tundra's ALSD as good as a locking differential in times like that?

 

[PRM]

I think you've made a strong case for you needing a locker!

 

[JCS]

Why are you NOT buying a 2016 Titan?

 

[hank4elk]

Randy check out F-150 Online for more info. Incredable source of info.
As much as I love my Tacoma I would hesitate to get a Tundra.
Toyota has the cars and small trucks down to a science,but they are way over priced now a-days IMHO

I was blown away at how low my RPMS are on the F-150 towing,just generally.
Great milage even with the big V-8 I have. And it went up the Kingman hill with a trailer like it was nothing. And mines an old one...lol 2001.
My neighbor has the new EcoBoast and loves it. He hauls gravel in a dump trailer like it is nothing.
I think a regular F-150 with the right package would be ideal for you personally. I have not heard of chain issues with F-150. And they tow like my old F-250,with 4 times the milage
Ohhhhhhhhh and as to the plasticy feel in the standard F-150......go with a Lariat w/leather or better yet a King Ranch.
I believe a OFFROAD HT/ King Ranch addition to the line would boast Ford sales imensly....LOL

 

[VAspeedgoat]

Show me a truck with a True locking front differential and I'll show you a truck with a worn out front end.

 

[FAIR CHASE]

Good demo video on locking rear diff. Love my Eaton G80.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdND6o9Vsqo

 

[charliebravo77]

It is that issue that is going to be a challenge for me to get comfortable with buying a Tundra; is the Tundra's ALSD as good as a locking differential in times like that?

Apples and oranges, but I have a 2013 Tacoma TRD Off-Road and have only needed the locking differential once, but I was glad to have it. That said, the ATRAC, VSC, LSD, and other traction control options on the TRD-OR model do a pretty good job of keeping you moving. I was driving out of a NF area in the NE Sandhills two weeks ago and went up a very steep grade a bit too slowly, lost traction, and got the back end of the truck half buried in sand. Shoveled a bit of loose sand out from under the tires, 4LO, locked diff, and sailed right up.

There's a pretty good write up on the Tundra's Electronic LSD system here http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/tundra-locking-differential/. Suffice it to say that it functions similarly to an ABS system, braking the wheels that lack traction, not actually locking the differential.

I've seen enough 3/4 ton and even 1/2 ton trucks get stuck in conditions that barely warranted switching from 2HI to 4HI in my Tacoma to know exactly why you're apprehensive about buying anything larger than the Titan. If the Tacoma had a little more power, and was about 6 inches longer in cab area and bed length (for the Off-Road model) it'd be damn near the perfect truck.

As you eluded to, you can get aftermarket lockers for the Tundra, ARB http://store.arbusa.com/Air-Lockers-C7.aspx are some of the most well regarded in the off-road world, but you're still looking at an additional $1k+installation on top of the cost of the truck which is something to consider.

If it weren't for the space and towing requirement you'd be well served by a Tacoma but I completely understand why you need the room and hauling capacity.

This thread is really, really informative and it's nice to see a very detailed look at the newer truck options from a serious public land hunter's perspective. Especially since it's confirmed what I was always suspected, which is the Tacoma/Titan/Frontier are the only real names in the game.

 

[dexnrex]

I just finished my first full hunting season with my 2014 F150 Ecoboost and I couldn't be happier. The low hanging moulding issue can/must be solved with a leveling kit on the front end. I did 2" in the front and it improved the stance quite a bit. The local dealer here in N.E. Montana recommends the leveling kit for hunters or ranchers who intend to travel the 2 tracks.

 

[Big Fin]

Why are you NOT buying a 2016 Titan?

I might be buying one. Just looking at everything that is out there and comparing. I do know the Titan lead engineer and he sought my input at two different shows as they were finalizing features of the truck. He and I went for drives in a Titan with him asking a ton of questions. He is from Idaho, grew up on a ranch and loves hunting. He watched some video clips I sent of me abusing my Titans. He went so far as to try get me a "sled" for 2014, but they were all allocated. A sled is their phantom prototypes that they put out in the hand of engineers and other abusers to get feedback.

The internal folks at Nissan are great. I've met with them three times, the last time in Franklin, TN where they are located. Yet, when things get handed off to the big national ad agencies and PR firms, things go south, real quick. These PR firms and ad agencies are not employees of the company, rather outside consultants who think they know more than God himself (well, not all of them, but enough that 80% of them give the rest of their profession a bad name).

Here's an example:

At the 2015 SHOT Show, the PR agency Nissan hires (based in Detroit) put together a big event for exclusive showing of the new Titan XD to select outdoor media. I was invited, as were many outdoor writers and bloggers. After a nice (and I assume expensive) breakfast, we were all taken down for the private showing by the Nissan engineers, led by the engineer I mentioned above. At their booth was a big placard that had the names of TV folks who would be signing autographs during normal trade show hours. Hmm. None of them drive Titans in their shows.

During the presentation, the engineer is often saying something like, "When you (insert abusive demand on truck here) like Randy does .........." After enough references to how I abuse my trucks, one of the guys leading the outside PR firm pulled me aside and asked, "Who are you?" I told him I was the only guy in outdoor TV who drove a Titan and that I had bought four of them with my own money over the last ten years.

He then asked, "Why do I not know about you? We called the network for names, why did they not give us your name?" I just shrugged my shoulders. I pointed to the placard listing the TV folks who drove Fords and Chevys and who would later be signing autographs at the Nissan booth; with as much humor as I could muster, I smiled and said something like, "I'm sure those folks know who I am." He asked for my card and told me I would be hearing from him. Good thing I did not stand by the phone waiting for his call.


That outcome is not specific to just trucks. Rather to any large company that uses an ad agency and PR firm to try reach a male-dominated niche demographic, as is hunting and outdoors. They might be really good at crafting messages to sell Camrays and Maximas and Ipads and Galaxy phones. But, they lack the internal expertise to effectively message to a quirky niche audience. Personally, if I was an auto company, I would have one ad agency and PR firm for my truck lines; firms that specialize in male-dominated markets. And I would have a different agency and PR firm that specializes in more diverse demographic markets to work on all my other auto lines.

These companies also hire outside ad agencies to do their media placement and buying of advertising and sponsorship. I provided proposals for 2014 and again in 2015. Both times the ad agency said, "No Thanks" and it was not due to pricing, as I am sure I was the lowest priced option in front of them. If you don't make the cut at the ad agency, your done.

That is in large part a reflection of how ad agencies work. There are some that specialize in the outdoor sphere and they are good. Then, there are the national agencies who don't know chit from apple butter when it comes to the outdoor sphere.

If I was to predict how this new Titan will be received by the truck market over the coming year, I would look in the rear view mirror and see how the existing Titan model was received; the first few steps out of the gate seem to be following the same path. The original Titan model was a kick-ass truck designed by some engineers who "get it." Yet, it was marketed to the surfer and mountain biking crowd. I remember the first ads I saw about the Titan back in 2004/05. It had a dude on the beach with his surf board. If the ad agency understood the truck market, the existing Titan would have been one of the best selling trucks out there to guys like us; it was that good for its time and space. Yet, how many of you gave it any serious consideration? Probably very few.

Given the lack of understanding their outside marketing agency has about the truck market, I think the same thing will happen with the new truck model, which would be unfortunate. They have designed and built a truck that will be bomb-proof, do all, and sometimes more, than many of its competitors of higher prices, but will fizzle due to the strategy in place for marketing is not reflective of how the flow of influence happens in the truck market.

I explained this to the ad agency and I think it may have offended them, but I stand by it. In the truck world, the current of influence goes one direction; the hunters, anglers, contractors, ranchers, rodeo, etc. are the users who are looked to for establishing the credibility of a truck in the truck market. They are the alpha opinion leaders. The casual truck guy, the suburban dweller who might take his truck off pavement once a month, the guy who wants to look the part and has the money to buy a decked out truck; those guys are the ones influenced by the serious truck user, not the other way around.

I think about the Titan's grand premier at the Detroit Auto Show in January; the biggest show in the entire industry. The model truck they rolled out on the stage was banana yellow. WTH?

How many serious truck owners, the guys who influence the decisions of casual truck owners, are going to be impressed by a banana yellow truck as the newest bad ass truck in the market place? None I know of. That same truck was at the SHOT Show. If I had not known what had went into that truck and what it was going to be as a final product, my first impression would have caused me to laugh. Someone at the PR firm or ad agency should be worried about their job over that kind of stuff that is so obvious to avid truck guys, but seemingly oblivious to those in the ad/PR world.

Back to your question, "Why am I NOT buying a 2016 Titan?" Right now, the 2015 Titan PRO4X is the mark other trucks have to beat for me to switch. When I see the gas model of the 2016 Titan, I suspect it will become the mark other trucks have to beat for me to switch. I have seen the diesel XD and I think it will impress people. But, it is a bigger body and not as nimble as my PRO4X, so I am waiting to see about the packages that come with the gas model.

I suspect that if Nissan's outside ad agency and PR firm read this post, I don't have to worry about any official sponsorship that would include a truck, so if I end up buying another Titan, you can rest assured that I did so because I thought it was the best place for me to invest $40K-50K in a truck that is an integral tool we use to produce this public land message.

 

[Big Fin]

Good demo video on locking rear diff. Love my Eaton G80.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdND6o9Vsqo

Every person buying a truck they think will be used in a true off-road situation should watch that video to understand the benefits of a locking differential. That was the best simple example I've ever seen.

 

[JCS]

Thanks for the info. I am also researching a new truck.

"Banana Yellow" You would look good in one of those.

Everybody would know where you are hunting.