8andcounting
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- Dec 16, 2013
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I was joking about the there must be plenty part - in my opinion there should not be a b mule tag in montana
SE Montana winter kill
- Thread starter mn taxidermist
- Start date
I was joking about the there must be plenty part - in my opinion there should not be a b mule tag in montana
8andcounting
Well-known member
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- Dec 16, 2013
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Yes , here in eastern ND they are talking upwards of 2' Thursday -Saturday
8, wasn't directed at you. mtmuley
That’s brutal. Heavy wet snow
Agreed!
Why not leave 'em be then?
The problem is not the doe tags being issued by the FWP. The problem is the doe tags are not limited to private land in some regions. I know several private ranches that have a hundred or more mule deer on their alfalfa fields each evening. Harvesting does there is probably healthy for the herd.
One of the problems IMO is the management areas are too large and the FWP thinks hunters will self distribute but are unable to do so due to limited access. Therefore the large parcels of public get hammered for 11 weeks.
brownbear932008
Well-known member
Thanks a ton I have heard they got Chinook winds there just have never experienced it I guess. Pretty cool stuff crazy I swear.
teamhoyt
Well-known member
The 11k doe tags issued for r7 last season was the best thing that could have happened for our mule deer going into this winter! I asked a biologist! Purty sure it's gotta be true.
It’s pretty incredible. Sometimes it doesn’t reach all the way to big Timber. The biggest change i saw this winter was about -2 in Big Timber and high 30s in McLeod just to the south.
It will steam up the windows of the car it warms so fast.
Badlandcat
Active member
Not after deer sheds and they are hanging around the house mainly. They are a unhunted herd, so they don't get to excited seeing humans.
I was on the road yesterday and listened to Herring and Jacobs. Interesting discussion around 42 min.
https://www.backcountryhunters.org/bha_podcast_blast_episode_13
https://www.backcountryhunters.org/bha_podcast_blast_episode_13
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Nameless Range
Well-known member
This was the part that got me fired up. Though, I disagree with Mr. Jacobs when he says, "You can't ban the line, so you gotta do it by shortening the seasons."
In that instance the "line" he is referring to is the threshold of acceptable technologies. I think we would do well to decide on acceptable thresholds and ban at will, and in the long run we would make hunting more defensible to hunters and non-hunters alike.
BrentD
Well-known member
Nameless, I wish I could agree with you but I can't. You wrote, "I think we would do well to decide on acceptable thresholds..."
That right there, I do not think is possible. Even if there was a mechanism for it, we couldn't come to any sort of agreement about what is acceptable. As a result, shorter seasons and fewer tags are the solutions. And that forces everyone to step up a level in the technologies they are willing to use simply to be able to have a reasonable chance of success.
Imagine the seasons and tag numbers for a world in which only patched roundballs with iron sights and longbows with wooden arrows are permitted, vs one where every sort of game finding technology in the world is at use, adaptive, "Smart Optics", 6.5 Creeds (
) look down satellite imagery, every sort of engineered product you can imagine (and zillions that you can't imagine but are just around the corner now). Where would the sporting goods industry be if those sorts of rules were set in place? It would be tough to make a living for them.
That right there, I do not think is possible. Even if there was a mechanism for it, we couldn't come to any sort of agreement about what is acceptable. As a result, shorter seasons and fewer tags are the solutions. And that forces everyone to step up a level in the technologies they are willing to use simply to be able to have a reasonable chance of success.
Imagine the seasons and tag numbers for a world in which only patched roundballs with iron sights and longbows with wooden arrows are permitted, vs one where every sort of game finding technology in the world is at use, adaptive, "Smart Optics", 6.5 Creeds (
) look down satellite imagery, every sort of engineered product you can imagine (and zillions that you can't imagine but are just around the corner now). Where would the sporting goods industry be if those sorts of rules were set in place? It would be tough to make a living for them.
T
timmy
Guest
Great stuff Mtmiller. Thank you for sharing that. Pretty much sums up what has happened to our herd. Would love to see healthy herd with age structure. Unfortunately this winter will give MT fwp an excuse as to why we are not seeing older deer and people will continue to come shoot their meat buck.
Nameless Range
Well-known member
Nameless, I wish I could agree with you but I can't. You wrote, "I think we would do well to decide on acceptable thresholds..."
That right there, I do not think is possible. Even if there was a mechanism for it, we couldn't come to any sort of agreement about what is acceptable. As a result, shorter seasons and fewer tags are the solutions. And that forces everyone to step up a level in the technologies they are willing to use simply to be able to have a reasonable chance of success.
Imagine the seasons and tag numbers for a world in which only patched roundballs with iron sights and longbows with wooden arrows are permitted, vs one where every sort of game finding technology in the world is at use, adaptive, "Smart Optics", 6.5 Creeds (
I don't want to hijack this thread with a subject I've beat to death any more than I already have, but I want to clarify. I understand why you feel that way, but disagree. We've done this with other things already. You already can't hunt with certain calibers, you already can't use certain technologies(Infrared, two-way comms, etc). Also, this has already been done in certain hunting areas in other parts of the country. Primitive hunting areas exist. So of course it could be done. We would just decide how primitive we want to be.
The threshold being somewhat arbitrary, we certainly would not have consensus, just like we didn't with other arbitrary thresholds like speed limits, voting ages, drinking ages, caliber limits, etc. Those things work fine though. You come as close as you can to achieving your goal on your threshold decision, and codify it.
Lastly, I'm not talking about doing this widespread across a whole state or even a majority of districts. I'm just never going to accept that shortened seasons or LE tags are our only two solutions to reduce hunter take. And in fact, would argue that those are only bandaids to a problem that will perpetually get worse, requiring a bigger and bigger bandaid until hunting seasons are too short to be meaningful or so few can hunt that hunting becomes less relevant to the whole. Yes, those aren't problems that will likely take effect during my lifetime, and maybe I'm looking too far into the future by bringing them up. As to the outdoor industry, I'm not worried about them. I'm sure Hoyt would find some way to come up with the $2500 2018 model recurve.
I agree with everyone above that a good first step would be to get rid of muley hunting in November.
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The Hedgehog
Well-known member
I ran into Roy Jacobs while hunting last fall. He's a fun guy to visit with and what he says is entirely the truth. Guys just don't want to hear it. Those "willing" to give up the last couple weeks of the ridiculous MT deer hunting season will have continue to be satisfied only seeing young dink deer in MT.
Nameless Range
Well-known member
Back to the OP. Check this map out. It takes a half-minute or so to progress through the winter.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/snow-accumulation/?utm_term=.fdf800ed6851
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/snow-accumulation/?utm_term=.fdf800ed6851
muledeerjunkie
Member
I wish they would add the snow accumulations since March 26th, we've seen more snow in the past two weeks and I assume SE Montana experienced the same...
