I can't imagine that I am the only Hunttalker that has received marketing emails from scouttohunt.com. I havent paid much attention because I subscribe to GoHunt.com, until something caught my attention and decided to see how they differ. Scouttohunt is a scouting service where they provide you trail camera pics from their network of trail cameras. I understand getting scouting reports from areas, but now we have trail camera networks that you can access from you computer? Has this gone too far? I would love to know your opinion. Perhaps I am being too critical of someone trying to make a living, but I really do not like the direction that the hunting community is headed with technology. I believe that Wyoming is in the process of trying to outlaw something similar. Thanks in advance.
Scout to Hunt website - Opinions Wanted - Has this gone too far?
- Thread starter utahminer
- Start date
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
I can go either way on the camera issue, but the rules should effect the locals and non-locals the same. Meaning, I don't care if you put the cameras up yourself or if you paid someone to do it for you. If legal, should be for all, not just those who happen to be within short driving distance. I am also fine with illegal for all if this is viewed as not, "fair chase". But I am sure WY will find a way for it to only be legal for resident outfitters.
D
Deleted member 18333
Guest
Yes, it is too far. It is just another service that is trying its hardest to eliminate as much of the hunt from hunting as they can. It's a shame that some shooters feel like they need to use a service like this. They are missing out on the most rewarding part of hunting, actually trying to hunt up an animal you want to kill.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
So, if you wanted to go deep sea fishing in the gulf and you saved all year to barely afford the trip and took 5 days of vacation you had to scratch and claw for, you would build your own boat and start mapping the gulf on your own because if you don't you are really missing the seaman's experience? Or would you hire a guy has a boat and uses GPS to get you in the area of the fish (I am not comparing to those stupid tourist charters)? The reality is that there are many people who would like to enjoy outdoor experiences but simply don't have the time or proximity to do it the "right way". The line should be whether their activities materially harm the enjoyment of others, not if it meets a particular standard in the eyes of the most committed.
So, if trail cams unfairly and disproportionately result in taking of game they should be illegal. If they don't then they should be legal. It should not matter if you placed them yourself or not.
Tradewind
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2015
- Messages
- 5,158
they should get rid of all trail cameras and drones on public hunting lands. the next service will be aerial drone reporting service for specific areas. It's becoming harvesting rather than hunting.
Going to far? Not sure I'd go there, but I know I'd not pay for the service. Beings they are starting in Utah and Nevada and state all the cameras are on public land, I'd like to know the status of their special use permits for commercial filming/photography... 
Actually, under the definition in many states, it IS acting as a guide/outfitter in some fashion because you are providing goods and/or services that aid in the hunting and/or taking of an animal. Therefore, it would make sense it would be legal for outfitters to do, provided they are licensed/permitted with the state and any public land agency where they are operating on. Most states do not discriminate between resident and non-resident outfitters.
LopeHunter
Well-known member
Hunting is becoming shooting and that makes it easy for people to look in from the outside and see hunting as no more challenging that shooting a beef cow in a large field.
Is bad enough we have idiots taking 600 yard shots. Hard to outlaw stupidity and laziness.
You can outlaw leaving items on public land unattended including game cameras and chairs left for months or years slowly decaying placed there by the morons that leave a chair on every waterhole for miles when can only hunt one but feel they own that waterhole.
You can outlaw use of a drone to assist in hunting. P&Y and B&C should prevent entries when a drone or game cameras was part of the hunt process which includes scouting.
If you want to hire someone to put boots on the ground or relay their knowledge of an area, so be it. If you want to put boots on the ground, so be it. Game cams and drones and helicopters and chute planes and planes all do the same thing and that is to provide information where you did not put boots on the ground to observe.
Is bad enough we have idiots taking 600 yard shots. Hard to outlaw stupidity and laziness.
You can outlaw leaving items on public land unattended including game cameras and chairs left for months or years slowly decaying placed there by the morons that leave a chair on every waterhole for miles when can only hunt one but feel they own that waterhole.
You can outlaw use of a drone to assist in hunting. P&Y and B&C should prevent entries when a drone or game cameras was part of the hunt process which includes scouting.
If you want to hire someone to put boots on the ground or relay their knowledge of an area, so be it. If you want to put boots on the ground, so be it. Game cams and drones and helicopters and chute planes and planes all do the same thing and that is to provide information where you did not put boots on the ground to observe.
BucksnDucks
Well-known member
I think selling this type of info from trail cameras has gone too far if it occurs on public land. If you are talking Whitetail leases, or guided hunts on private land, whatever. On public lands the monetary incentive to sell info on specific animals (I assume trophy quality) goes too far. I view this the same as conflicts arising from the outfitter crews baby sitting trophy animals and blocking access to other hunters with intimidation or force.
D
Deleted member 18333
Guest
Not sure that your analogies are apples to apples with what this service is selling but to answer your question it would depend on what I wanted to get out of my time on the water. Assuming from your analogy that I don't have a boat or even a general understanding of how to run a boat, how to fish or where the fish might be and all I wanted was to make darn sure my face was in the photo with that fish and that my name was in whatever record book they use for fish then I would find a guide that had radar lock on the biggest one around and I would just make sure my hand was on the reel when the fish hit the boat. If I just wanted to go fishing then I would probably just go hire a guide that is familiar with the area and the fish and see what happens.
Keep in mind that this is not what this service is selling. They are not catering to the guy that doesn't have a truck, or an atv, or a horse, or feet, or hunting gear, or camping gear, or the ability to go into the woods and find an animal. This service is for those that cant stand the idea of going home empty handed, or with anything less than the biggest bull on the mountain or they simply want to get the critter killed as fast as possible so they can move on to the next thing. This service isn't pointing a guy in the general direction of where to look for animals. It's not suggesting a trailhead to start from. It's not saying you might have some luck hunting this particular basin. It is saying here is the catalogue of bucks and bulls we have, pick the one you like the best pay up and we tell you the coordinates of where and when we last saw it. Its weak. It's lame and those that use it are doing themselves a dis-service.
And I never once said it should be illegal. To be honest I am not sure how I feel about Wyoming trying to make this service illegal in the State. My first thought was that it should not be illegal and it should just be mocked and belittled and hopefully it will go away. But that doesn't seem to work. Its just more and more crap that makes killing big critters easier and easier. Where does it stop? I don't know but maybe this is the point where it should.
zachthebowhunter
Member
Sounds like it is going to concentrate a whole bunch of dudes that payed $99 a year in a few locations.
What seems to "tip the bucket" or make this the "straw that breaks the camels back" is that all the other situations we are talking about above are happening on a fairly limited basis. So, its a group of guys that are finding the animals and keeping it somewhat secret so that the resource is not exploited. At this point very little is keeping people from over harvesting; which eventually results in a decrease in tags / opportunity. I dont think that is the direction we want to take an tradition that we all hold so dear.
Perhaps this isnt a fair comparison, but it make sense in my mind. We hear about great old days of mule deer. Those days seem to be about the time that people were just starting to get access to 4-wheel drive vehicles and started to get more and more access. As a result deer went to harder to reach places. Since that time we have had the onset of 4 wheelers and side- by-sides that have driven animals to even more remote and more difficult to reach places. This "service" will start to make those places known. What is response from the game? Once again, I know that things like this have happened in the past with game cameras, drones, airplanes or helicopters, but they were very limited in number and didnt put as much risk on the animal.
When the "eliminate game camera" argument surfaced I really didnt take a side. I personally dont use them (dont have the time and personally like to be surprised by what is in the field), but I wasnt opposed to it. It does seem to be getting out of hand on public ground. If you want to put a camera on private property where limited people can hunt anyway, then I don't have an opinion.
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TRS_Montana
Well-known member
I don't see how this is going to be popular unless there is someway the user can influence the location of the trail cams. The way I'm imagining this service being provided, once a decent bull shows up on a cam that multiple people have the location of, there is going to be pandemonium at that site. The only reason I'd subscribe to something like this is to know the spots I should avoid during hunting season.
zachthebowhunter
Member
This ^
MinnesotaHunter
Well-known member
It is services like this that are going to make it so we can only hunt elk once or twice a decade. Keep improving the pump, and watch the well dry up.....
Nameless Range
Well-known member
IMO it crosses a threshold and should be disallowed. It's only a matter of time before someone offers a service with exclusive rights to a series of cameras for certain time periods. Yes, you can make an analogy that it is similar to paying someone to scout for you - something folks do all the time. But things like this, and cameras that shoot you a text in the office when a critter walks by, are going to be catalysts in an increasing effort to make trail cameras on public lands illegal.
And personally I am someone who enjoys putting up cameras every summer. With technology it's all about thresholds. Industry keeps pushing.
And personally I am someone who enjoys putting up cameras every summer. With technology it's all about thresholds. Industry keeps pushing.
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bobbydean
Well-known member
Distasteful. If legal in the state, maybe.
Personally no.
I would the prefer the brought to my house caped and packaged meat,(sarcasm)
Personally no.
I would the prefer the brought to my house caped and packaged meat,(sarcasm)
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Posses work better....
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
I definitely concur on that point.
Part of the challenge of course for regulators is how do they crack down on $$$$ trophy hunters with no regard for the sport or the land, while still making the sport approachable for the guy that would love to do it hard core 5 weeks a year, but simply can't.
Easy choice for me, I want to do it myself so even though I can't get out to scout I will still try to come out and hunt and hope for the best (with help from HT, Randy and onX) no $$ to outfitters or "service scouters". When my son and I come out we just want to see something and will be happy taking home a doe or two. But the whole "trophy" thing is lost on me, I have hunted and fished my whole life and have a fish 8 oz. short of a then world record in the scrapbook, but never pursued "racks" or lbs. Fine that others pursue it, just not my thing. At the same time, getting skunked too often does suck and pushes well intended folks out of the sport, so helpful services are appropriate and useful at times.
