SB 298 - Crossbow bill rears its ugly head

[Tomahawk]

There's a reason why rifle seasons in WY are 10-14 days and archery are a month, including right in the middle of the rut and have given up ZERO.

Don't want to hear the noise and I'm not listening to archery hunters complain about advances in technology when rifle hunters HAVE given up something, while archery seasons continue to expand while technology also expands.

There is barely a difference between a vertical modern compound and a crossbow...just a fact.

I'm honestly trying to follow along, but I'm afraid I'm not mentally flexible enough to keep up with your Twister game of logic. Folks here are agreeing that bows are too advanced so I don't see what there is to argue about?

Your position that technology has gone too far so we should take it further holds about as much air as a deflated Chinese balloon.

You can call a crossbow a bow if you like, just like you can call a bee a fish, but that doesn't change the fact that they have different capabilities.

 

[BuzzH]

I'm honestly trying to follow along, but I'm afraid I'm not mentally flexible enough to keep up with your Twister game of logic. Folks here are agreeing that bows are too advanced so I don't see what there is to argue about?

Your position that technology has gone too far so we should take it further holds about as much air as a deflated Chinese balloon.

You can call a crossbow a bow if you like, just like you can call a bee a fish, but that doesn't change the fact that they have different capabilities.

The point is, you aren't going to put archery technology back in the bottle and the "differences" between a crossbow and a modern compound are about zero.

The argument that crossbows are a step too far in "archery" seasons is laughable as a best case.

 

[bigsky2]

The point is, you aren't going to put archery technology back in the bottle and the "differences" between a crossbow and a modern compound are about zero.

The argument that crossbows are a step too far in "archery" seasons is laughable as a best case.

Why do crossbows have scopes?

 

[Dave N]

Why do crossbows have scopes?

Why do rifles have scopes?

And I was trying to stay out of this.

 

[DFS]

Why do rifles have scopes?

And I was trying to stay out of this.

I can get on board with this. No scopes on any weapons.
So far I’ve gathered from this thread rifle hunters want every technology available to them and don’t care about the effects to the resource. Archery hunters would be willing to accept limits in technology for the benefit of the resource.

 

[thomas89]

I love how there's so many people in here saying "I'd give up X, Y, or Z" for the sake of "sportsmanship" or "fair chase". Nike's got a motto about it I think...

The fact is technological advancements in all aspects of gear have made hunting sooo much easier and more comfortable and that's why it's laughable . At some point it was all new fangled kit that was for sure going to ruin hunting.

As far as impacts on the resource .... I'd have to see some proof. Not necessarily efficacy of crossbows vs vertical bows...but some stats that show harvest percentages are putting a resource in jeopardy.

 

[PrairieHunter]

Would be interesting to see a graphic showing average shot distance of rifle, muzzleloaders, archery, etc.. over the decades.

I don't keep up with it any more but it seems like 50 yard shots with a bow used to be long range when I was a kid, now people are shooting 100-150+

Muzzleloaders in the old days were probably 75, maybe 100 yard weapons at one point, and are now 500+ yard capable off the shelf in some cases.

Rifles it seems like 300 yards was a pretty long shot back in the day, now it's more like 1,300.


This thread reminds me of the premature electrification commercials.


Montana is having premature crossbowification issues it seems.

 

[Firedude]

While I understand the concern many have here and some bring up some valid points I'm simultaneously appalled at others.

I remember hauling my mother up stairs in her wheelchair around town. The ramps at some places were worthless. They existed to be complaint. While some people just resigned to not going places my mother never did. When the city started budgeting to build ramps in better locations there were a ton of complaints that it would ruin the aesthetics of the historic buildings. "It just won't look right." I couldn't imagine somebody being so self centered, vain, and short sighted to say something so moronic. Nature and bad luck took enough things she loved away from her when I was 12. Assholes tried to take the rest.

Idaho has had a crossbow allowance for disabled for as long as I can remember. It rarely gets abused. A doctor has to sign off on it. Hurting a pinky does not qualify you. However being in a wheelchair (You might need a free hand to turn.) or missing a hand absolutely does. Inability to draw a legal weight bow qualifies. Ever had a doctor put you on a weight restriction? Imagine that being permanent due to a car accident that crushed bone and severed muscles. Disabled people who might really need to use a crossbow still pay taxes on public lands. I thought we were about public lands here.

If you're concerned that a crossbow is to much of an advantage ask for some limits. Pin sights instead of scopes etc. Talk about it logically. If people park in the blue spots that don't need them we go after them, not the ability of handicapped people to use those spots.

 

[Hem]

Fyi...quality fly-fishing surpasses quality hunting in Montana.
Since the thread is swirling.

 

[Ought Six]

Dan has like a 24” draw length and can stretch it 300 yards, crossbow guys will be stretching it out to “muzzleloader” ranges of 700-800 yards lol. I only joke, but I did see a “muzzleloader” bull elk kill video that was like 850 yards or some chit

 

[bigsky2]

While I understand the concern many have here and some bring up some valid points I'm simultaneously appalled at others.

I remember hauling my mother up stairs in her wheelchair around town. The ramps at some places were worthless. They existed to be complaint. While some people just resigned to not going places my mother never did. When the city started budgeting to build ramps in better locations there were a ton of complaints that it would ruin the aesthetics of the historic buildings. "It just won't look right." I couldn't imagine somebody being so self centered, vain, and short sighted to say something so moronic. Nature and bad luck took enough things she loved away from her when I was 12. Assholes tried to take the rest.

Idaho has had a crossbow allowance for disabled for as long as I can remember. It rarely gets abused. A doctor has to sign off on it. Hurting a pinky does not qualify you. However being in a wheelchair (You might need a free hand to turn.) or missing a hand absolutely does. Inability to draw a legal weight bow qualifies. Ever had a doctor put you on a weight restriction? Imagine that being permanent due to a car accident that crushed bone and severed muscles. Disabled people who might really need to use a crossbow still pay taxes on public lands. I thought we were about public lands here.

If you're concerned that a crossbow is to much of an advantage ask for some limits. Pin sights instead of scopes etc. Talk about it logically. If people park in the blue spots that don't need them we go after them, not the ability of handicapped people to use those spots.

According the the bill, a chiropractor could sign an individual off on using a crossbow.

 

[corndog1]

A modern crossbow with a scope is an absolute difference… There is no real argument there at all…

There are people in here that will argue this just so they can argue

 

[Deleted member 48080]

Nothing pisses me off more than someone judging someone else for being on disability. Anybody thinking it's something just anyone can choose to be on has obviously never dealt with the process.

If someone is on disability, are they never allowed to have good days? Can they not push themselves still, without worrying about some judgmental asshole questioning them?

 

[Firedude]

According the the bill, a chiropractor could sign an individual off on using a crossbow.

As I said at first that may be a valid concern. Voice it. The opposite end of the spectrum being do you really think a kid without full mobility should never experience elk hunting in the rut with his dad because somebody might squeeze through?

 

[Straight Arrow]

Crossbow hunters already have plenty of opportunity, whether disabled or not.
Crossbows are already approved for hunting during shoulder seasons, the general season and before and after in Weapons Restriction Areas, thus a long season of opportunity is available for crossbow hunters.
Physical limitations of disabled hunters allow those hunters to acquire a Permit to Modify Archery Equipment to let them modify conventional archery equipment to hunt during the Archery Only Season. In fact, Montana Bowhunters Association has assisted disabled bowhunters in modifying their archery equipment and going afield to hunt.
Crossbows are more closely akin to rifles than archery bows. Crossbows shoot a short metal bolt, rather than an arrow. Crossbows, much like firearms, are mechanically cocked, then fired pulling a trigger. Crossbows employ a sighting system much like a rifle and often are equipped with optical scopes. The crossbow is much easier employed as a hunting weapon and, if allowed during the Archery Only Season, would significantly transform the challenging aspect of "archery" hunting.
No problem exists regarding opportunity for crossbow hunting.

It's just another unnecessary piece of legislation to satisfy a vociferous minority who continue to ram this bill through the meat grinder, session after session after session.
What a waste of human endeavor! IMHO.

 

[307]

Crossbows shoot a short metal bolt, rather than an arrow.

False

 

[307]

While I understand the concern many have here and some bring up some valid points I'm simultaneously appalled at others.

It's a system that is frequently abused and manipulated for personal gain. Those whom are truly disabled would surely be the loudest opponents the frauds, at least I would think so.

 

[Straight Arrow]

False

Please elucidate.

 

[307]

Shooting a crossbow in the field, off hand, is far more challenging than shooting off a bench rest. Many of the claims made about crossbows don't seem to take that into consideration.

In field shooting conditions, I'm more accurate to a longer range with my vertical bows than my crossbow.

The ability to shoot without movement is the primary advantage a crossbow has over a vertical compound bow.

Carrying a crossbow in the mountains for a couple of days is enough to piss off the Pope. They're heavy, awkward, and just generally irritating.

 

[307]

Please elucidate.

Modern crossbow arrows have a carbon shaft, plastic vanes (glued on with a Bitzenburger fletching jig), glue in brass inserts, expandable or fixed head broadheads, and a plastic knock of several varieties.

About 450 grains total weight.

Usually 18-20" carbon length.

Other than the length, sound familiar?

My setup, black eagle shafts, AAE Max hunter vanes, 100 grains brass insert, SEVR expandable broadhead (150gr).

ETA:
My vertical bow setup: black eagle shafts, AAE max stealth vanes, 75 grains brass insert, SEVR expandable broadhead (150gr). About 450 grains.