Sad to see this

[hank4elk]

Which means nothing. There are hundreds they have been working on and more never started.
There are hundreds of superfund sites they are working on and more never started yet.
Again I do not blame the EPA per se ,as some have.
THEY ARE underfunded for the job they have been given,by libs and righties in Congress. All agencies get more piled on with less staff and proper funding MANDATED. From sherriffs office's & janitors to EPA.
WHY are the US taxpayers paying to clean up the corperations messes?

 

[Elkmagnet]

I have been surprised by the level of media coverage. I would have thought it would have been larger.

Didn't you hear? Someone killed a Lion! Americans don't care about no Stinky ol river we want to hear about that beautiful Lion.

 

[Oneye]

I don't know why people are wanting to give the EPA a pass on this. They are not under-funded and they have become an arm of our left-wing idiot white house. They are full of incompetent clowns that do Obama's bidding and never have to answer for anything.

I had to jump through stupid hoops just to get a gravel pit on my property and they never even came out to see it. I understand that we need to have someone monitoring the environment, but for crying out loud do it right and keep the politics out of it. They have wreaked havoc on agriculture over Obama's term. Those fools don't seem to care about where the food comes from. They are more concerned with savings bugs and minnows, than they are with the economic impact of their stupid policies.

They do not answer to us. They answer to their masters in the white house. They are bureaucrats and are either civil servants or political appointees, neither of which we will have any input on. Disgusting.

And your disgusting argument is that we shouldn't worry about our environment because of economic impacts. You're not the only species that depends on this planet for life, and as one species we don't have the right to be judge, jury, and executioner of the planet because of economics. That's exactly what the conservative right winged sides are doing with this land seizure BS and every policy they try to put forward is for economic gain in the face of destruction of irreplaceable resources. Both sides are full of politics and neither side is going to be in the middle. You have two totally opposite parties pulling each way. Economics are vitally important, but there are some things we are refusing to move away from because of that argument.

 

[Odin]

That's exactly what the conservative right winged sides are doing with this land seizure BS and every policy they try to put forward is for economic gain in the face of destruction of irreplaceable resources..

That is a lie.

Do you own a smartphone?

 

[Oneye]

That is a lie.

Do you own a smartphone?

It's not a lie at all, do you have a smart phone? I am for the most part on their side, but they've really done some crappy things to sportsmen. I listen to Glenn Beck a lot and I like his points on many things, but a lot of what they make fun of (such as science) makes them look ridiculous. The land transfer has nothing to do with anything but greed, and it's the republicans pushing the BS.

 

[Odin]

It's not a lie at all, do you have a smart phone? I am for the most part on their side, but they've really done some crappy things to sportsmen. I listen to Glenn Beck a lot and I like his points on many things, but a lot of what they make fun of (such as science) makes them look ridiculous. The land transfer has nothing to do with anything but greed, and it's the republicans pushing the BS.

It is not about greed. It is about control.

What does science have to do with what you said earlier?

The EPA f'd up. There is no one to blame except the EPA.

The EPA needs to fine its self. Of course the taxpayer always pays in the end.......

 

[VAspeedgoat]

I think what is aggravating to people who have to deal with the epa on a regular basis, is that they just keep mophing into new things. They used to be a regulatory agency, now they write some of their own regulations ( per executive order for the chesapeake bay ) , and now they are attempting to clean up sites. Although I do wonder if this was actually a contractor. I just really don't like a regulatory agency that writes its own regs. Its like a cop saying well the speed limit used to be 70, but I decided to change it to 40 today in the interest of public safety. A bit of an exageration but you get my point.

 

[Oneye]

It is not about greed. It is about control.

What does science have to do with what you said earlier?

The EPA f'd up. There is no one to blame except the EPA.

The EPA needs to fine its self. Of course the taxpayer always pays in the end.......

I agree with you on the EPA in a lot of ways. Where I differ from the rant you had is that the Republican Party has done much more harm and attempted to pull more shit on sportsmen than the democratic side. Regarding the EPA I understand at this point there is overreach in some areas, but what the agency is intended for is actually a great thing. The issue is they've taken a lot of policies a step too far.

As for science, I'm saying the right tends to deny science based policies that actually make sense in a lot of instances to promote "economic impacts" and ignore environmental impacts. Both sides are crooked and so far up there own ass though you can't win either way as the taxpayer.

 

[RUT JUNKEY]

I'm not sure who is to blame here, BUT, I do know if a farmer here has a spill of chemicals, liquid hog manure, etc. and it reaches a watershed, stream, river, etc. . .the farmer pays for it. (I think most are forgetting that the EPA is a Govt agency . . .no blame/consequences. . .)

 

[sbhooper]

I think what is aggravating to people who have to deal with the epa on a regular basis, is that they just keep mophing into new things. They used to be a regulatory agency, now they write some of their own regulations ( per executive order for the chesapeake bay ) , and now they are attempting to clean up sites. Although I do wonder if this was actually a contractor. I just really don't like a regulatory agency that writes its own regs. Its like a cop saying well the speed limit used to be 70, but I decided to change it to 40 today in the interest of public safety. A bit of an exageration but you get my point.

Exactly. That is the part that I left out of my post.

 

[noharleyyet]

"Do as I say...not as I do"....just like congress and the vacuous suit at whose leisure they serve.

 

[BR-549]

I think what is aggravating to people who have to deal with the epa on a regular basis, is that they just keep mophing into new things. They used to be a regulatory agency, now they write some of their own regulations ( per executive order for the chesapeake bay ) , and now they are attempting to clean up sites. Although I do wonder if this was actually a contractor. I just really don't like a regulatory agency that writes its own regs. Its like a cop saying well the speed limit used to be 70, but I decided to change it to 40 today in the interest of public safety. A bit of an exageration but you get my point.

Exactly!

We have been involved in brownfield/ superfund sites too and it amazes me how the rules can change from job to job. Almost like they are setting a trap. Our local office, as I am sure many do, obtain most of their funding through fines.

I'm with others here. I don't understand why the EPA was doing this. They are supposed to be third party oversight or even sometimes fourth. When we get into contaminated sites we are the lowest authority on the job even though we have training and may be the GC. There would be an abatement/ removal contractor and an Environmental Scientist (ES) who has the most authority onsite. An SOP would be submitted and approved by the EPA prior to any cleanup activities. Within the SOP are measures to be taken in the event of spills etc. Seems they would have had to know the potentials of this job.

BTW, I was being sarcastic when I said they answer to us. Supposed to be that way and it would be nice if it were, but it is far cry from it.

 

[Oneye]

I'm not sure who is to blame here, BUT, I do know if a farmer here has a spill of chemicals, liquid hog manure, etc. and it reaches a watershed, stream, river, etc. . .the farmer pays for it. (I think most are forgetting that the EPA is a Govt agency . . .no blame/consequences. . .)

Right but its the farmers waste, they used those chemicals, and should be held responsible. However, even though this was more cleaning up a mess someone else made I don't think it should be given a complete pass. I was glad the clean water act got finalized, but I didn't expect the EPA to be the first to break the rules, and in a big way.

 

[Nameless Range]

It will be interesting to read how this exactly happened. Did one individual F up? Were wires crossed somewhere and a contractor not in the know destroyed dike B when he was supposed to destroy dike A? Humans F up. Private orgs F up and Government ones do to. Teams of People F up. Individuals F up. To use any one event to make a sweeping statement about any contingent as a whole, private or otherwise, is self serving B.S.

Maybe the EPA does need a shakeup. Maybe they need to be reigned in. That said, some organization has to exist to clean up the messes of yesteryear. You're ignorant to the environmental facts if you think otherwise. In Montana alone we have 16 superfund sites, and hundreds of other mitigation/toxic removal projects occurring. Within one hour of my house there are 6, one of which is arguably the largest in the country. Spring Creek, which runs below my house, begins at the head of Curtain Gulch below the Occidental Plateau. Water bubbles out of the ground as orange as orange juice - the result of acid mine drainage. You can bet my kids don't play in Spring Creek, though it does run into Prickly Pear Creek, and on to the Missouri River.


The shame of it is what this will do to the wildlife and fish in that river. The Clark Fork River in Montana, was devoid of aquatic life for decades due to mine waste. Largely due to the actions of the EPA, it is now an ever improving fishery, and one of the reasons it took me 6 years to graduate from school. I live less than two miles from the Montana Tunnels Pit west of Jefferson City. Now abandoned due to safety concerns being too expensive to deal with, it is a giant whole in the ground filling with water and collapsing in on itself, with the National Forest on its north flank sluffing off into the pit now closed to public access. I'd wager that some day, when the dam holding the tailings ponds back begins to erode and that giant whole in the ground has filled up with water someone will have to clean it up, and that someone will be using our tax dollars to do so. Here's a photo from the Occidental Plateau, looking down on the tailings pond.

It is sobering to think, in Europe they are still pumping acid mine waste out of Roman Mines, and will do so in perpetuity.

 

[double_a85]

It will be interesting to see who is held accountable on this. How many billions of dollars did BP have to pay over the gulf oil disaster? That disaster was on the news 24/7... but this seems to be barely a blip on the radar, is it because it wasn't a "greedy big oil company?"

 

[Elkmagnet]

They have wreaked havoc on agriculture over Obama's term. Those fools don't seem to care about where the food comes from. They are more concerned with savings bugs and minnows, than they are with the economic impact of their stupid policies.

I've been in agriculture my whole life agriculture is the most under regulated over subsidized industry in the country. The only people who don't see that are the ones benefiting from it.

 

[Ben Lamb]

It will be interesting to read how this exactly happened. Did one individual F up? Were wires crossed somewhere and a contractor not in the know destroyed dike B when he was supposed to destroy dike A? Humans F up. Private orgs F up and Government ones do to. Teams of People F up. Individuals F up. To use any one event to make a sweeping statement about any contingent as a whole, private or otherwise, is self serving B.S.

Maybe the EPA does need a shakeup. Maybe they need to be reigned in. That said, some organization has to exist to clean up the messes of yesteryear. You're ignorant to the environmental facts if you think otherwise. In Montana alone we have 16 superfund sites, and hundreds of other mitigation/toxic removal projects occurring. Within one hour of my house there are 6, one of which is arguably the largest in the country. Spring Creek, which runs below my house, begins at the head of Curtain Gulch below the Occidental Plateau. Water bubbles out of the ground as orange as orange juice - the result of acid mine drainage. You can bet my kids don't play in Spring Creek, though it does run into Prickly Pear Creek, and on to the Missouri River.


The shame of it is what this will do to the wildlife and fish in that river. The Clark Fork River in Montana, was devoid of aquatic life for decades due to mine waste. Largely due to the actions of the EPA, it is now an ever improving fishery, and one of the reasons it took me 6 years to graduate from school. I live less than two miles from the Montana Tunnels Pit west of Jefferson City. Now abandoned due to safety concerns being too expensive to deal with, it is a giant whole in the ground filling with water and collapsing in on itself, with the National Forest on its north flank sluffing off into the pit now closed to public access. I'd wager that some day, when the dam holding the tailings ponds back begins to erode and that giant whole in the ground has filled up with water someone will have to clean it up, and that someone will be using our tax dollars to do so. Here's a photo from the Occidental Plateau, looking down on the tailings pond.

It is sobering to think, in Europe they are still pumping acid mine waste out of Roman Mines, and will do so in perpetuity.

View attachment 48583

Preach it!

great post.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

I've been in agriculture my whole life agriculture is the most under regulated over subsidized industry in the country. The only people who don't see that are the ones benefiting from it.

I will take issue with this. I have poultry and also some beef. Except for cost share programs there are no government subsidies that come my way. As far as unregulated, I have an entire filing cabinet full of paperwork, contracts, permits, and nutrient/environmental plans that dissagrees. Point taken however because our area has been the guinea pig for thus stuff. The Mississippi TMDL plan will be implemented soon and thats when you'll see the stuff hit the fan. The thing that frustrates everyone is the idiots you have to deal with from the various government agencies that are increasingly more ignorant of farming. Oh well that's how it goes and this is the life I picked. However, don't think all farmers are subsidy takers or are even eligible. Cost shares are great and help many things but still cost the farmer money. We really aren't all the environmental hogs that some think we are. There are always someone some where that is and that will likely never change. The rest of us try to earn a living within the rules and are stewards of the land. When farm groups oppose something it is because of years of frustration. No one has ever said I would like more government "help" at work.

As I have stated on here before I would be happy to do anything the public wants. Organic, grass fed, free range, all natural etc. But don't require me to do that and then import stuff from Brazil because its cheaper. If all products had to meet our standards then the market would adjust. Problem is most people want cheap food not good food.

Sorry got off topic a bit.

 

[Oneye]

I've been in agriculture my whole life agriculture is the most under regulated over subsidized industry in the country. The only people who don't see that are the ones benefiting from it.

I'll agree with this.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

The sad part about this Oneye is that you and I are like most of America. We actually agree on the endgame but disagree on how to get there. Due to the political games we are forced to oppose each other because time and time the NRA model of never yield works. So we are on opposite sides trying to build the same fence. I respectfully disagree that agriculture as a whole is under regulated but I concede that there are sharp geographical differences with that in this country. Also there is an epidemic of some farmers becoming welfare cases. I don't think it is as wide spread as some think but again most of these programs are formed by mid west and western congressmen. I am trapped in the east.

So, we are forced to argue, much like the rest of the country, because we can never find common ground and build from there. At least there's hunt talk to bring us together. Lol!