Rule of thumb for 20ga 2 3/4” shot size

[feedback]

I just bought myself a 20ga Remington 870 with a bird barrel and a rifled barrel. What’s the easiest way to get used to what shot sizes to use for hunting things from birds to Turkeys and everything in between? I do know to use sabot slugs in the rifled barrel. Thanks for your feedback and God Bless.

 

[96ags]

General rule of thumb that I have always used is "little bird, little shot".
Dove - #7-8
Bob Quail - #6-7
Blue Quail - #5-6
Duck - #4-6
Geese - #.270 or 3-4
Turkey - #2-4

This is just my experience. I'm sure some guys with way more knowledge than me can chime in though.

 

[BrentD]

I don't use anything bigger than 6's on Turkeys. It's a different ballgame and pellet count matters more than anything.

 

[Beignet]

I was going to suggest an old Federal Premium 2-3/4” 20ga Heavy Turkey load, but they’ve been discontinued and would probably be impossible to find right now even if they hadn’t been.

That said, I’ve used those #5 pheasant loads in the past with the *intent* of shooting a bird. Couldn’t get one in close enough when I had them loaded though. Felt like those were a good balance of “umph” and pellet count.

As far as smaller birds; I was deliberating shot size for ruffed grouse once and the ammo shop guy said “it doesn’t take much to bring them down, don’t overthink it.” I usually use a #7 or #8 for critters of that size.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I use #5 for pheasant and #6 for grouse. Sometimes late season I will go up to #4 high brass for pheasant. They seem to get tougher and the shots a little further near the end of season.

This all assumes lead. If steel you have to go up 2 sizes.

 

[1_pointer]

Shot material matters IMO/E...

For turkeys, I'm in the heavier than lead group. Federal HW or TSS and small shot sizes (7 or smaller).

#6 lead, preferably copper plated, would cover nearly all other bases (squirrels, rabbits, put and take pheasants) I use a 20ga for in IN. The last two years I've used #5s for squirrels as I had a few boxes left from out of state pheasant trips.

 

[OntarioHunter]

For most uplands - quail to pheasants - #6 or 7.5 lead will do fine. I prefer #5 for pheasants but the two smaller sizes will work. I would advise bumping up to 3" shells for them.

For waterfowl you'll have to shoot nontoxic shot and for most who don't live in a castle that means steel. Steel shot is an entirely different ball game from lead. Larger size and faster velocity is needed to compensate for less specific gravity (mass). This is especially true for heavy feathered waterfowl, not so much for uplands (hunting them on federal refuges requires steel shot). For small ducks like teal and wood ducks, #4 or #3 (if you can find it) steel will work fine, but for big mallards, pintails, and most divers you're best to use #2 steel. Especially for them I'd advise stepping up to 3" shells. And again, for waterfowl look for steel loads with plenty of gas - 1500 fps muzzle velocity. Some guys do use 20 gauge for geese (3" only!) but they have the decoy/blind setup and shooting expertise to make it work. I use 3" twelve gauge BB 1 1/8 oz @ 1550 fps very effectively. For honkers BB or #1 steel is the rule. Anything smaller is a recipe for cripples. I don't have turkeys to hunt but everyone seems to advise #6 lead. I imagine that size would work fine in the rare places where one might be required to use steel shot (federal refuges) because they're usually shot in the head that's just bare skin and bones. Should be close range shooting for turkeys (especially if you have to use steel) but 3" shells will give more pellets in the pattern which is important for head shots.

As a final bit of advice, if you are planning to do some wingshooting, go to a trap/skeet club and snag a few lessons first. The cost is worth it. Might save you wasting a dozen flats (cases) of shells. Several of us on here have a lot of shooting experience and can offer invaluable advice but person to person is a much more productive method of teaching/learning. A lot more fun too. And when you're done at the range try to find a mentor to show you the way in the field.

And finally, if you're considering wingshooting ... GET A DOG. Much more important than the gun. By the way, you have made a good choice in guns ... unless it is an Express model. If it is an Express, take the barrels to a gunsmith and have him polish the chambers. He'll know what to do. And always keep that gun well lathered with oil. The Express models are a rust magnet. Still, it should be a reliable workhorse once the chambers are smoothed and that's what counts.

 

[OntarioHunter]

For uplands I advise staying the hell away from fancy copper painted lead shot zooming at 1500 fps. The only thing they kill better is your pocket book ... and your shoulder if shooting a lightweight fixed breech pump action. Those shells will lead to flinching = more missed birds. For pheasants don't waste shells taking long shots. Watch where the bird goes, leave him alone for an hour or so, and then try again. But if you sent him on his way with a wasted hail mary blast, that rooster won't let dog or man get close for the rest of the day.

 

[VikingsGuy]

For uplands I advise staying the hell away from fancy copper painted lead shot zooming at 1500 fps. The only thing they kill better is your pocket book ... and your shoulder if shooting a lightweight fixed breech pump action. Those shells will lead to flinching = more missed birds. For pheasants don't waste shells taking long shots. Watch where the bird goes, leave him alone for an hour or so, and then try again. But if you sent him on his way with a wasted hail mary blast, that rooster won't let dog or man get close for the rest of the day.

I agree. I still like copper - but at 1300, not 1500 - and I would only go up to 3" shells for geese or turke.

 

[Salmonchaser]

Those damn Prairie Storm loads destroyed pheasants. Hated it when clients showed up with those. Like VG I liked copper at 1300 to 1350. Five’s for roosters, sixes for Huns and Chucker. What ever for Quail. I actually don’t mind sixes, give them a quick three count and then shoot,

 

[cwitherow]

I've recently switched to bismuth and been really happy with the results. I don't shoot tons so the price is doable. Listed velocity is 1350.

#7- dove, grouse (12 and 16)
#5- ducks and pheasant (12 and 16)
#2- geese (12)


For turkey, the price is nuts but the TSS stuff is worth it IMO. Shooting only once a year (maybe...in MN) doesn't hurt the checkbook.

 

[OntarioHunter]

As important, if not more important, than shot size is choke selection. I presume you purchased a new gun and therefore have choke tubes and a variety to choose from (I don't think Remington even makes fixed choke barrels any more). Just want you to keep that in mind. Good topic for a separate thread ... that's probably already been beaten to death.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I agree. I still like copper - but at 1300, not 1500 - and I would only go up to 3" shells for geese or turke.

Remember, he's talking about a twenty gauge. 3" would be better for big ducks and #2 shot. Smaller shells would be short on larger size shot. For pheasants "3 shells and a more open choke would give him a wider and fuller pattern which might be important for a beginner.

I had to use a box of 2.75" Black Cloud #4 steel waterfowl shells for refuge pheasants last fall because it was all I could find on the shelves (and damn lucky to find them). They worked very well but tore the birds up a bit. Definitely overkill but what can you do. After I set the old A5 Magnum Twelve auto up for heavy loads the recoil was tolerable. First shell shot with friction rings on light setting about took my head off. But I have 2.75" barrel spring and brake in it when hunting uplands. I'm sure the much stiffer magnum guts for goose loads would have worked fine. Shooting those shells in a pump or O/U would have been brutal.

 

[Don Fischer]

I have never hunted geese or turkey's and have no plans to. Most my hunting has been chukar, huns, quail, ducks and pheasant. At one time all I used was 7 1/2 shot 1 1/8os load in a 12 ga. What I found out was that even though 7 1/2 shot will kill pheasant well it also gives more cripples! Went to #6 shot and eliminated the pheasant cripples and still worked well on the smaller bird's.

 

[buffybr]

@OntarioHunter, I basically agree with everything that you posted. Your comment "And finally, if you're considering wingshooting ... GET A DOG. Much more important than the gun" reminded me of a time a friend and I were hunting pheasants north of town here. We were knocking on doors of various farms asking permission to hunt. At one house the lady that answered the door said we could hunt but we couldn't use our dogs because we would get too many birds with the dogs. The truth is that a dog will find many more cripples than a hunter without dogs would.

Your comment "By the way, you have made a good choice in guns ... unless it is an Express model. If it is an Express, take the barrels to a gunsmith and have him polish the chambers" has me puzzled. Most of my shotgunning has been with Over/Under guns. For many years I had wanted a shotgun that offered more than two shots, and about 25 years ago a local store had Rem 870s on sale for a little over $200. It came with a Modified choke, so I also bought a Skeet choke for it. The first time that I shot it I took it to the Skeet range, and the first box of shells broke a 24, so I knew the gun worked.

In 25 years I've shot several thousand shells through that gun, and I'm not real fanatical about cleaning it. When I read your comment about having the chamber polished and that "The Express models are a rust magnet," I was curious if my 870 was an Express model. So I just took it out of the safe, and it is an Express model. I then took off the barrel and the chamber and barrel is just as clean and shiny as it was when it left the factory. I see no reason to have a gunsmith polish the chamber.

As to the OP's original question, the only difference between a 12 gauge shell and a 20 gauge shell is the number of pellets in each load. The shot load can be driven to exactly the same velocity in either gauge. The choke determines the diameter of the pattern. The number of shot pellets determines the density of the pattern. All else being equal, less shot means a less dense pattern. Of course a 3" shell can hold more shot than a 2 3/4" shell, so the 3" shell will have a denser pattern. The other ways to have a denser pattern would be to limit the distance of your shots, or to shoot a tighter choke.

 

[VikingsGuy]

@OntarioHunter, I basically agree with everything that you posted. Your comment "And finally, if you're considering wingshooting ... GET A DOG. Much more important than the gun" reminded me of a time a friend and I were hunting pheasants north of town here. We were knocking on doors of various farms asking permission to hunt. At one house the lady that answered the door said we could hunt but we couldn't use our dogs because we would get too many birds with the dogs. The truth is that a dog will find many more cripples than a hunter without dogs would.

Your comment "By the way, you have made a good choice in guns ... unless it is an Express model. If it is an Express, take the barrels to a gunsmith and have him polish the chambers" has me puzzled. Most of my shotgunning has been with Over/Under guns. For many years I had wanted a shotgun that offered more than two shots, and about 25 years ago a local store had Rem 870s on sale for a little over $200. It came with a Modified choke, so I also bought a Skeet choke for it. The first time that I shot it I took it to the Skeet range, and the first box of shells broke a 24, so I knew the gun worked.

In 25 years I've shot several thousand shells through that gun, and I'm not real fanatical about cleaning it. When I read your comment about having the chamber polished and that "The Express models are a rust magnet," I was curious if my 870 was an Express model. So I just took it out of the safe, and it is an Express model. I then took off the barrel and the chamber and barrel is just as clean and shiny as it was when it left the factory. I see no reason to have a gunsmith polish the chamber.

As to the OP's original question, the only difference between a 12 gauge shell and a 20 gauge shell is the number of pellets in each load. The shot load can be driven to exactly the same velocity in either gauge. The choke determines the diameter of the pattern. The number of shot pellets determines the density of the pattern. All else being equal, less shot means a less dense pattern. Of course a 3" shell can hold more shot than a 2 3/4" shell, so the 3" shell will have a denser pattern. The other ways to have a denser pattern would be to limit the distance of your shots, or to shoot a tighter choke.

+1 one for the dog being more important than the gun or the shell.

 

[Don Fischer]

Ah yes, the dog. Without a dog I would not hunt birds! This is a pup, 1 yr, out of my Stormy and Sis. He's just getting going. I used the hunt my dogs every now and then with a blank gun just to watch them work!

Snicker

This is the American Field version of the Irish Setter. We call them Red Setter's. Guy's that cross Register call them Irish Field Setter's.

 

[cwitherow]

+1 one for the dog being more important than the gun or the shell.

+2, at least for upland. After years of going on "nature walks with a gun" I was finally able to get a dog of my own. Excited to watch him work. We are able to get into ducks and geese by scouting, just have to make the retrieves ourselves.

 

[MThuntr]

The Express models are a rust magnet," I was curious if my 870 was an Express model. So I just took it out of the safe, and it is an Express model. I then took off the barrel and the chamber and barrel is just as clean and shiny as it was when it left the factory. I see no reason to have a gunsmith polish the chamber.

Both of my "new" 870s 12ga Supermag and 16ga Express are/were rust magnets. It's the newer production ones with like a matte finish and black stock are those that rust just looking at them for some reason. The 12ga Supermag would leave empties in the chamber...had to polish the chamber and replace extractor to get it to function properly. The 16ga chamber seems good to go.


My 2cents on 20ga loads mimics just about everything said already:
7.5-8s for Quail, Doves and Targets
5-6s for Upland Birds (5s if steel)
4-5s for Turkeys (though TSS options of 7-9s)...3" shell
2-5's for Ducks (my preference is 3 or 4s)..3" shell
BB-2s for Geese..3" shell

As stated if you're working upland birds with a dog then shells don't really matter so much.

 

[OntarioHunter]

@OntarioHunter, I basically agree with everything that you posted. Your comment "And finally, if you're considering wingshooting ... GET A DOG. Much more important than the gun" reminded me of a time a friend and I were hunting pheasants north of town here. We were knocking on doors of various farms asking permission to hunt. At one house the lady that answered the door said we could hunt but we couldn't use our dogs because we would get too many birds with the dogs. The truth is that a dog will find many more cripples than a hunter without dogs would.

Your comment "By the way, you have made a good choice in guns ... unless it is an Express model. If it is an Express, take the barrels to a gunsmith and have him polish the chambers" has me puzzled. Most of my shotgunning has been with Over/Under guns. For many years I had wanted a shotgun that offered more than two shots, and about 25 years ago a local store had Rem 870s on sale for a little over $200. It came with a Modified choke, so I also bought a Skeet choke for it. The first time that I shot it I took it to the Skeet range, and the first box of shells broke a 24, so I knew the gun worked.

In 25 years I've shot several thousand shells through that gun, and I'm not real fanatical about cleaning it. When I read your comment about having the chamber polished and that "The Express models are a rust magnet," I was curious if my 870 was an Express model. So I just took it out of the safe, and it is an Express model. I then took off the barrel and the chamber and barrel is just as clean and shiny as it was when it left the factory. I see no reason to have a gunsmith polish the chamber.

As to the OP's original question, the only difference between a 12 gauge shell and a 20 gauge shell is the number of pellets in each load. The shot load can be driven to exactly the same velocity in either gauge. The choke determines the diameter of the pattern. The number of shot pellets determines the density of the pattern. All else being equal, less shot means a less dense pattern. Of course a 3" shell can hold more shot than a 2 3/4" shell, so the 3" shell will have a denser pattern. The other ways to have a denser pattern would be to limit the distance of your shots, or to shoot a tighter choke.

As Mthunter implied, the 870 Express shotguns made today are not the same quality as the ones made 25 years ago. I am presuming this fella has just bought a brand new one.