Round In The Chamber
- Thread starter BuckRut
- Start date
It is binary though. It's either safe and appropriate to have a hot rifle or it's not. That's only two, binary, options and I believe the answer is non subjective - at least according to the tenets of firearm safety and hunters education.
The only non binary part of this comes down to acceptable level of of risk. To me, when one of the potential outcomes is my brain splattered all over my backpack and my wife identifying my body, it's unacceptable and there is basically zero wiggle room.
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I think we need a study of where the risk analysis lands on this one as I am surprised the poll is neck and neck. It would be interesting to see where the odds land per trip compared to things like flying in a bush plain or drinking unfiltered water and things of the like.
406dn
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It is a different situation than your two scenarios, that is, if I assume the bush plane flight is the only realistic option. Certainly flying in a bush plane carries risk. It is also likely that an accident could kill you. So, you would mitigate the risk...by, say, not flying in bad weather.
Drinking unfiltered water is risky, but the consequence is not likely to kill you.
An accidental discharge from a rifle carries the potential for a catastrophic outcome. It is so easy to reduce that risk, to basically zero.
comparing it to other things isn't what's useful. it's comparing it to itself.
say statistically my odds of shooting myself are 0.001% if i hunt without ever chambering a round until i'm ready to shoot. If i hike around all day chambered let's say the odds jump to 0.1%. That's a 100x increase. Odds remain slim but i don't accept that increase in risk. And i especially don't accept that increase in risk from individuals i'm not in control of.
The majority of horrible accidents come down to people doing things they absolutely didn't have to do, and it usually involves breaking the rules of firearms safety.
People can do what they want, but I may steer clear of hunting with them.
That’s like saying it’s either safe to drive 70 or it’s not.
If you’re on a mountain as steep as a cows face, trying to claw your way to the top through the brush and your rifle is strapped to your back, is that different than being on level ground sneaking along following an elk track so fresh that his shit isn’t frozen even though it’s -5 outside?
I drive different speeds on a dry freeway than I do an icey two lane full of curves.
you're coming back to personal acceptable levels of risk. you and i likely differ on that.
Me carrying a rifle in my hands with the safety on is less dangerous to me than you driving on a road with the general public.
Hopefully it is for you too.
The safety should never come off until the split second before shooting, nothing should ever enter the trigger guard and even if it did, the muzzle should never be pointed anywhere that it could hurt you.
I can think of at least 3 bulls, including my biggest that I killed in thick timber at under 50 yards. There is no way he would have let me chamber a round. Not just the time it takes, but the noise on a cold day when you can hear a pin drop.
I would say that 98% of my hunting time involves not having a round chambered but there is a time and a place.
but that's just irrelevant.
all that matters is hunting with a chambered rifle and a safety (hopefully) on all day is more dangerous than only putting a round in when i'm ready to shoot; there are plenty of acceptable scenarios that can involve "being ready" to shoot.
that's the only relevant equation to the discussion: chambered rifle is less safe than unchambered rifle. and when faced with a riskier option and less risky option with no statistically significant change to my hunting success, i'm choosing the less risky option.
but, my stance remains unchanged, hiking around the mountains all day with a hot rifle is pretty dumb.
I agree.
I dunno. Personally always thought it was easy to just open the bolt and remove a round if I’m stepping over deadfall or passing through some other hairy terrain where I’m less than sure footed. Especially ok with chambering one solo when I’m still hunting and moving slow, not putting anyone but myself at risk. Also especially ok with chambering one when I see a bunch of fresh griz sign all over the place in dense timber.
I personally wouldn’t ride a motorcycle without a helmet, but am not going to make a point to proselytize about the dangers of donor-cycling to anyone who doesn’t wear one.
I also think soda and a lot of processed food is disgusting and somewhat dangerous to the consumer, but I’m not going to proselytize about the potential self harm of that.
Rock climbing and backcountry skiing seem dangerous to me, but I’m not going to go shake my fist at folks who choose to do those activities.
I could go on and on with examples of free will where there’s no potential for harm to anyone but yourself. Guess it’s nobody’s bidness.
All this talk does make bird hunting sound like one of the most crazy loco danger pursuits on earth though. I’m gonna have to rethink that.
But in general, yeah. It doesn’t make sense in many situations to have a loaded rifle with you, open country, hunting in groups, places without big hungry apex predators, etc.
So, still not binary yes or no.
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samuel_284Win
Well-known member
No. If 3 seconds is the difference between me taking an animal or not due to the need to cycle the bolt then there are probably other ways I can build in more time for patience and a less rushed shot opportunity.
Hem
Well-known member
I do what I do.
Empty chamber when other people around. People are a distraction.
Solo, I hunt hot maybe 50% of the time with centerfire. A hot rifle is another aspect of keeping me dialed in the game, but usually still hunting.
BP I hunt hot 100% of the time.
Empty chamber when other people around. People are a distraction.
Solo, I hunt hot maybe 50% of the time with centerfire. A hot rifle is another aspect of keeping me dialed in the game, but usually still hunting.
BP I hunt hot 100% of the time.
Bonasababy
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Seems like where and how you hunt plays a role, then some situations always call for an empty chamber no matter where you are.
Level ground with limited chances of stumbling and tight cover where if you don't pull up and shoot in a very short time or you miss your opportunity I do.
If I hunted open western country on rough ground I wouldn't, and anytime crossing a fence, climbing a tree or pulling a gun up to one, I don't. The vast majority of shot opportunities are fleeting. Even while hunting from a stationary position. Tight cover is where they are most of the time.
Much of my big game hunting is from a tree. I load the mag but don't rack one into the chamber until I am up and settled in. Can't ever recall a situation where that one extra shot made any difference at all.
Bird hunting is an entirely different game of course.
I think if you study gun accidents you'll find that most are muzzle control and situation awareness issues, which excepting situations like fences or tree stands or very rough ground where stumbling is a real possibility IMO are much more important than whether a round is in the chamber or not. We hammer that home in gun safety training here. Kids I am with or bringing up have to show me they are always thinking of that before I allow them to have a round in the chamber.
Level ground with limited chances of stumbling and tight cover where if you don't pull up and shoot in a very short time or you miss your opportunity I do.
If I hunted open western country on rough ground I wouldn't, and anytime crossing a fence, climbing a tree or pulling a gun up to one, I don't. The vast majority of shot opportunities are fleeting. Even while hunting from a stationary position. Tight cover is where they are most of the time.
Much of my big game hunting is from a tree. I load the mag but don't rack one into the chamber until I am up and settled in. Can't ever recall a situation where that one extra shot made any difference at all.
Bird hunting is an entirely different game of course.
I think if you study gun accidents you'll find that most are muzzle control and situation awareness issues, which excepting situations like fences or tree stands or very rough ground where stumbling is a real possibility IMO are much more important than whether a round is in the chamber or not. We hammer that home in gun safety training here. Kids I am with or bringing up have to show me they are always thinking of that before I allow them to have a round in the chamber.
but it is binary, objectively. we're talking about two options and one objectively contains higher risk and one objectively contains lower risk. binary.
so it's acceptable levels of risk that introduces the nuance and we all differ on our lines.
and yes, bird hunting is batshit and i'm never dove hunting with anyone again.
I hunt Idaho so everything is steep. I don’t jump shoot animals either. Normal hunting for me is finding an animal from a glassing point and stalking. I’ll rack a round after my shooting position is ready. It may be looking at the animal or at the ambush spot after I’m in the shooting position.
Handling rifles differently loaded or unloaded argument isn’t true . You always treat a weapon as loaded.
Handling rifles differently loaded or unloaded argument isn’t true . You always treat a weapon as loaded.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
WildWill
Well-known member
No. 99.9% of the time unloaded. It’s ridiculous to hike all day with a partner, or alone, and assume that your muzzle will be pointed in a safe direction the whole time. It’s not possible. Maybe if you’re walking down a fence line on perfectly flat ground, but not mountain hunting. I’ve looked down the barrel of a hunting partners loaded rifle too many times while hiking, I refuse to hunt with anyone dumb enough to carry a loaded rifle all day.
If you’re rifle is loaded is not going to make a difference in harvesting an animal.
And don’t give me that nonsense with bears. I live and hunt in AK, worried about bears, get bear spray or a pistol. You’re not going to whip your rifle up fast enough to matter if they’re close.
If you’re rifle is loaded is not going to make a difference in harvesting an animal.
And don’t give me that nonsense with bears. I live and hunt in AK, worried about bears, get bear spray or a pistol. You’re not going to whip your rifle up fast enough to matter if they’re close.
Sheltowee
Well-known member
Same thought crossed my mind. I cringe every time I see someone walking around with a broadhead dangling from their bow, especially after seeing the damage Brinker did to himself with an arrow that just slipped out of a quiver in one of the Destination Elk seasons. Feel like it would be all over but the crying if someone ran a Cutthroat or Sevr through their guts 5 miles back into nowhere.
