RMEF supports "Shoulder Seasons"

[shoots-straight]

And if shoulder seasons are going to become an RMEF topic, start a new thread on that and let's discuss it over there. When I'm done with this day of tax planning meetings I'm happy to try answer whatever questions I can.

So:

Now that's funny, Robert. The same group that tried to use their leverage to keep me off the Board and whose requests were denied are now the supposed reason RMEF takes a position on a topic. As the finance committee chairman who knows where RMEF donations and revenue come from, I might add. ........ you are seriously uninformed /misinformed.

I'm the one that's uninformed /misinformed, but a RMEF news letter said otherwise in 2008. Has this changed?

Guides and Outfitters Vital to Elk Foundation Mission


MISSOULA, Mont—Donated hunts, goods and services from guides and outfitters have surpassed the $28 million mark in net proceeds for conservation initiatives of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.
“As a group, guides and outfitters are the Elk Foundation’s biggest supporters. Together they have now donated more than 13,000 trips and items for auctions and raffles. These businesses lead by example in an effort to ensure the future of elk, other wildlife their habitat,” said David Allen, president and CEO of the Elk Foundation.
Six outfitters from Arizona, Montana and New Mexico are being honored in 2008 for reaching new levels of support netting $50,000 or more.
New Mexico—Torstenson Wildlife Center/Double H Ranch of Datil, N.M, this year became an Elk Foundation Level 5 contributor ($100,000) with 56 donations since 1986 raising a combined $117,385.
Arizona—The White Mountain Apache Tribe of White River, Ariz., has become an Elk Foundation Level 4 contributor ($50,000) with 4 donations since 1990 worth $71,100.
Montana—North Fork Creek Outfitters of Gardiner, Mont., also became an Elk Foundation Level 4 contributor with 39 donations since 2001 netting $62,350.
New Mexico—RB Outfitters & Guide Service of Chama, N.M., reached Elk Foundation Level 4 status with 53 donations since 1985 worth $55,235.
Montana—Wilderness Lodge/Skyline Outfitters of Hungry Horse, Mont., is now an Elk Foundation Level 4 contributor with 55 donations since 1998 totaling $50,547.
Montana—Broken Arrow Lodge of Alder, Mont., also reached Elk Foundation Level 4 status after 27 donations since 1996 that raised $50,000.
The Elk Foundation currently has 472 guides and outfitters enrolled in a program called Partners In Conservation. This year, 61 were recognized for reaching new levels of net contributions to the Elk Foundation mission, including 34 newcomers to Level 1 ($5,000), 7 to Level 2 ($15,000), 14 to Level 3 ($25,000), plus those in Levels 4-5 mentioned above. Only one outfitter has reached the uppermost plateau, Level 6 ($250,000): Wyoming Wilderness Outfitters of Powell, Wyo., with 119 donations since 1986 netting $404,236.

http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/Pr...desandOutfittersVitaltoElkFoundationMiss.aspx

 

[Big Fin]

Has this changed? Yup, a lot.

And, as an entire group, across all states, if combined as one donor, outfitters would be a very large donor. Compare to all revenue sources, even just membership revenue, they are a very small portion. If you want to imply, however incorrectly, that they are the tail waging the dog, feel free to do so.

Next..............

 

[Big Foot]

I am an ardent supporter of RMEF but need to understand this shoulder season stance better. I am in opposition to the shoulder seasons for various reasons. I understand the RMEF wants to support the fwp biologist who claim this is a necessary tool for them to manage elk numbers.

However, when looking at the shoulder season proposals and the current handling of their implementation. One would think that science is playing little to no role in driving this bus?

44 districts have been proposed for shoulder seasons in a rushed manner according Chairman Vermillion due to the technicalities of how the commission meets and decides on these issues.

Can someone please help me see the benefits of supporting these shoulder seasons? I currently see the shoulder season hunts as a very short sighted management tool which will likely blow up in our faces in the near future.

 

[RobG]

I am an ardent supporter of RMEF but need to understand this shoulder season stance better. I am in opposition to the shoulder seasons for various reasons. I understand the RMEF wants to support the fwp biologist who claim this is a necessary tool for them to manage elk numbers.

In your conversation with RMEF did they say this push is coming from the biologists?

 

[Big Foot]

In your conversation with RMEF did they say this push is coming from the biologists?

No, I gathered that RMEF is in support of the initial 4 districts as a trial as well as supporting the biologist who stated this a valid tool for solving the land owner tolerance riddle. My takeaway from the conversation was that RMEF is walking a tight rope on this one and the support of these seasons is tentative. I do believe that if enough RMEF members voice our opposition we will be heard and possibly sway RMEF's position.

I am a relative newb on these issues and am very willing to hear others thoughts about how naive I am.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Having been a member, volunteer and a supporter of RMEF almost since its inception, like MTMILLER on the "MT elk shoulder season" thread, I have to evaluate RMEF's position based on its mission. More information, data, and rationale is needed for me to fairly sort this out ... but fundamentally it is difficult for me to see how rifle hunting cow elk for six months of the year is going to be good for Montana's elk natural resource. It does cause concern at a basic level.

 

[shoots-straight]

Has this changed? Yup, a lot.

And, as an entire group, across all states, if combined as one donor, outfitters would be a very large donor. Compare to all revenue sources, even just membership revenue, they are a very small portion. If you want to imply, however incorrectly, that they are the tail waging the dog, feel free to do so.

Next..............

Randy, I wasn't implying anything. Post that I have written for the last 10 years will imply nothing. I say what I intend to straight up. I'd like to believe that I call a spade a spade as that is my intention.

Regardless, the private land outfitters will benefit from "Shoulder Seasons" as well as the landowners they lease from. I don't think the public land outfitters will benefit in the long run, so they should be on the other side of the isle. Not sure if their voice is being heard.

BTW, I'm not in opposition of "Shoulder Seasons" IF there's the EMP as a guideline to follow. It seems everything is being tossed out for the killing of game animals across the state.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

this may sound stupid,but what is a shoulder season?please explain as ive never heard of that term?

 

[WapitiBob]

^^^ this

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I also wondered why they are using that terminology!

 

[The Hedgehog]

Should be called the "bend over and take it right in the hiney" seasons..

 

[Schaaf]

this may sound stupid,but what is a shoulder season?please explain as ive never heard of that term?

A season on either end of the general season designed to lower the population of said animals in units that are what FWP (landowners) call "over objective".

 

[RobG]

The name shoulder is used because these seasons are on either side (i.e. on the shoulders) of the main season.

Another important aspect is that they are published seasons, not game damage hunts. This circumvents the law requiring a landowner to provide public hunting access if he is to get a game damage hunt to kill or chase off the elk on his land.

A law requiring public access in order to get game damage assistance sounds like a good idea, but having seen how the idiots behave on these private lands it doesn't surprise me that landowners are looking for another solution.

 

[----]

The name shoulder is used because these seasons are on either side (i.e. on the shoulders) of the main season.

It's not even a true shoulder season anymore. Many of these proposed seasons run all the way from August 15-winter, straight through the traditional archery. do rifle seasons.

 

[RockyDog]

I just read the news article and FWP manager John Vore was touting shoulder seasons. It gave me a sick gut feeling because several years ago John Vore was our regional biologist and he created 3 years of elk slaughter in our region. Under his short realm, I witnessed the worst slaughtering, wounding and group hunting in 30 years. Elk were vermin. 10 years later this region has not recovered from elk vermination.

Another deja vu moment, RMEF uses a survey worded for "expanded opportunity" to take a questionable stance. This same logic was used when RMEFs leadership supported the roadless area release act. This stance was reversed by rmef after member backlash, but leadership obviously did not view wild areas the way majority of members do. Montana members anyways. To me it looks like a a very similar case now on shoulder seasons.