RL23 - first time using it

[Brian in Montana]

I loaded a velocity ladder test for the .280AI and shot it yesterday: Winchester brass, F210M, 160gn Federal TBTs, and RL23. It's hard to find much info on RL23, so I was going off what I could find for a bunch of Google searches and some load data provided by an acquaintance. It was a 12 round ladder starting at 58.8gn going up to 61gn, increasing the charge .2gn with each round. I anticipated hitting about 3000fps on the highest couple charges, but my very first shot clocked at 3000. That surprised me. I went slow and gave each casing a very thorough examination after each shot. That's pretty darn fast for 160gn bullet, so I was concerned about pressure.

Anyway, besides a little cratering in the primers (but I find that's not uncommon with Federal), I never saw any of the telltale pressure signs your expect. And the velocities did exactly what they should be doing, increasing a little at a time (no big spikes or drops) so I kept going and shot the whole test. I came out with some good flat spots to work with and my last charge - 61gn - clocked in at 3106fps.

So anyway, my initial impression of RL23 is favorable. Based on the data and target, I'm anticipating a good load between 58.8 and 59.6gn. My friend said he was getting pressure signs at 61gn of powder (extractor marks and flat primers), but for as fast as those 160s were zipping, I never did. So, I'm going to load up some more and see how they group.

Any of you guys experiment with this stuff? My impression is it seems a little more stable, at least in this rifle/components, than RL22. Interesting stuff so far.

 

[D4570]

You think R23 is hard to find info, try R26.
Find someone with " quick load" on their Computer, they can work you up some good information.
I had someone work me up a starting point for my 8MM rem mag and 220 gr sierra.
In about the middle range of the load workup, I found a good load with no sighs of over presser and 3200FPS.
I get a 5" group at 500 yards off shooting sticks.
I do wish there was more printed data on 23 and 26...

 

[antelopedundee]

I had someone run a number of loads for me using QL and some which included the absolute hammer bullets. One of his comments was that the QL data is primarily for Winchester brass and if you use another brand and want to extend case life then back off from the top load listed by 2 grains or so. Can't say that I've had any high pressure signs from using that approach. One good thing about Reloder 23 is that it is temperature stable and it also has a copper fouling reducer added to it.

 

[ImBillT]

It’s what I’ve been using in my 6.5x257AI. Probably a little slower than ideal for me. Might be a little slower than ideal for a .280AI as well if you’re not going heavier than 160gr.

You need to cover a wider band of charge weights to do a real ladder test.

With RL-23 I believe pressure seems to increase slightly as temperature drops.

When you can’t find data for RL-23, use RL-22 starting loads and work up. It may be a hair faster than RL-22.

Its dramatically more temp stable than RL-22.

 

[44hunter45]

There is some data in the 2021 Alliant PDF recipe book. Look on the Alliant website. I want some for 131 HH in 7RM. Steve says its the go-to.

 

[klampson]

I use RL23 in my 270wsm with 127 LRX bullets, very accurate, and doesn’t seem to be impacted by temperature much, at least I haven’t noticed a change in POI. Taken lots of game with this combo, and fun to shoot steel out to 700 yards with it.

 

[44hunter45]

Have you tried the Sierra iPhone app? Pretty cool for quick start and max charges

 

[grizzly63]

I spent some time looking at the Alliant website and even had one of their free load guides. The interesting thing I saw was that in some cartridges, it was the cats meow. In others, it was middle of the road or lower end. Must be some truth to the rumor that certain powders work better in certain applications and really suck in others that you would think they would do great in. RL23 is faster in 270 win and I developed a nice load for it with 150 speers FWIW.

 

[std7mag]

Yeah, the Alliant reloading data is, ummm, somewhat lacking.
280AI isn't even listed.
But it does have some data for the standard 280 Rem.
But not with RL23.

Try having a 284 Win & want to shoot heavier than a 110gr Speer using Alliant powder.
Especially when the powder you want to try is one of the Power Pro series that isn't on Quickload either.

Biggest issue i've found with RL23 and RL16 is they are bulky. Meaning you get more case fill for weight than simular powders.

 

[Brian in Montana]

That's true. They are bulky and don't meter that great. I loaded up a batch of test loads this morning, based on the ladder test I did. I'll probably get out and shoot them on Friday.

 

[old roper 42]

That's true. They are bulky and don't meter that great. I loaded up a batch of test loads this morning, based on the ladder test I did. I'll probably get out and shoot them on Friday.

Nosler has data for 280AI/ R-23 with 160gr AB Manual 9. I haven't tried R-23 in my 280AI. I started with R-17 then IMR-7828ssc and now R-26. Nosler data start load 160gr AB was 54.5/R-23 @ 2808fps and max 58.5/R-23 @ 3011fps, Fed 210 and test rifle has 26" barrel.

Hornady #11 also has 280AI data for R-23/R26 with 162gr.

It's getting better

 

[ImBillT]

Load data for RL-23 is very close to RL-22, MRP, and N560. Start low and work up. Max charges will likely be a hair under RL-22/MRP.

 

[old roper 42]

You have R-22,R-23,R-25,R-26,R-33.

 

[Don Fischer]

Load data for RL-23 is very close to RL-22, MRP, and N560. Start low and work up. Max charges will likely be a hair under RL-22/MRP.

Damn I'm getting old! Only powder I'm familiar with in that bunch is R-22 and took me a long time to try it! I have heard of MRP but pretty clueless about it. Can remember back in the early days of my reloading, I'd go to the hardware store that had a sporting good section and get H4831 powder. The stuff came in a large container and was sold by the pound! If you only wanted a pound they dipped it out into a small paper bac and that's what your got. If you wanted five pounds, the paper bag got bigger! That was Hodgdons old military surplus stuff, guess it's all gone now! It was the same thing with H4895! Overwhelms me now and then how many different powder's are out there! Sounds like some of the stuff come's from overseas. Only stuff I ever used from overseas back then was Norma powder. In fact if there were other powder's from over there I couldn't name them. Pretty sure Herter's powder's came from over seas but I'd never tried any of them. Today I can't imagine starting to work a new load up for something and trying to figure out what powder to start with! Getting old is hard!

 

[Millsworks]

I like R-23 in my magnum cartridges. Unless I am shooting a heavy for caliber bullet out of them. Like a 220gr in the .300 win mag., Then I prefer the slow burners like R-26.
Always liked the number designation Alliant uses too. Bigger number, slower burn rate.
Helps keep me straight.
At least most of the time.

 

[GunTruck]

I do not have a 280 anything but I do have other rifles and I have tryed RL23 in most of them. Heaviest bullet I shoot in my 270 Win is 150gr, But I only use MRP for that. It was fast and very accurate. With 140gr Bullets 58.5gr. was as hot as I could go with the RL23 I got 3094 FPS in my new Sako and same load 3044FPS in my old Model 70. In my Old model 70 257 Roberts with the fast barrel I got 3123 FPS with RL23 using 115gr Nosler partitions. RL 23 worked go in my 7mm Mag with 160gr Accubonds at 3070 FPS, SD of 8.2, Also worked good in my 270 WSM at 3128 FPS with 140gr Accubond and WLRM primers

 

[ImBillT]

Damn I'm getting old! Only powder I'm familiar with in that bunch is R-22 and took me a long time to try it! I have heard of MRP but pretty clueless about it. Can remember back in the early days of my reloading, I'd go to the hardware store that had a sporting good section and get H4831 powder. The stuff came in a large container and was sold by the pound! If you only wanted a pound they dipped it out into a small paper bac and that's what your got. If you wanted five pounds, the paper bag got bigger! That was Hodgdons old military surplus stuff, guess it's all gone now! It was the same thing with H4895! Overwhelms me now and then how many different powder's are out there! Sounds like some of the stuff come's from overseas. Only stuff I ever used from overseas back then was Norma powder. In fact if there were other powder's from over there I couldn't name them. Pretty sure Herter's powder's came from over seas but I'd never tried any of them. Today I can't imagine starting to work a new load up for something and trying to figure out what powder to start with! Getting old is hard!

Alliant and Norma along with other companies purchase powder from Bofors. No powder manufacturer can make powder from batch to batch that is consistent enough for reloaders to use. Powder that reloaders buy is considered “canister grade”. That means that it’s burn rate and energy density fall within a narrow window that a company like Alliant or Norma will purchase and put a label on it, and now us reloaders can use it knowing that it’s close enough to what’s in the load manuals that we can use it. Batches that do not fall within a canister grade spec are sold to ammunition manufacturers who test each lot in pressure barrels and need no manual.

RL-22 and MRP are both the same original powder from Bofors. Their actual energy density and burn rate specs are not identical, but are close. Norma uses tighter specs than Alliant. They are not quite interchangeable, in that you may have a load with RL-22 and get a slightly different velocity using the same load with MRP, and the same goes for pressure, but if you start at the starting load in a manual that shows RL-22, you can substitute MRP and work up. Many powders are like this. RL-15 and N-203b are also essentially the same powder. Lot to lot variation between two lots of RL-15 can be greater than the difference between RL-15 and N-203b. Bofors does not set out to make a batch of MRP. They make a batch of XYZQ? and when they’re done they test it. If it falls within the spec for MRP, they sell it to Norma, if it does not, then they check with Alliant and Rottweil and so on.

Early Hodgdon surplus powder was just that. It was surplus IMR4831 and IMR4350, although it likely did not all fall within a canister spec, and that’s one reason Hodgdon has always leaned on starting out well below max. When the surplus powder dried up, Hodgdon did not purchase from DuPont(owners of IMR and made in USA) but rather went over seas, and bought a completely different powder manufactured by a different company and continued to call it H4350, H4831 etc. Almost all powders are made over seas and have been since DuPont sold the IMR label to Hodgdon. The exception was ball powders, which were almost exclusively made by Olin. Hodgdon has purchased powders almost exclusively since they ran out of surplus powder. Again, the exception was hodgdon ball powders which were made by Olin. There are many Winchester powders who have a Hodgdon twin. Another time a lot of US powder manufacturing ceased was when Hercules became Alliant.

If you shot Hodgdon powders that weren’t ball powders after they stopped labeling it “surplus” then you shot plenty of overseas powder back then.

 

[old roper 42]

I think Speer manual #15 has more loading data using R23,25,26 in mag/ non mag calibers. I started with R-26 2019 and I don't remember seeing R-23 or R-25. 2lbs didn't last long. Once I got 8lbs of R26 and looking at Speer data for 270/270Wby, I started working up loads for those two rifle. My other 280AI I used Hornady data.

The 280AI I post about in #11, my best accuracy with R-26 is with Nosler 175gr ABLR @ 2941fps and load is from Nosler manual. This is my post for Nosler site on that load.

280AI data

Finally got around to chono few loads. Rifle, Rem action, 27" Lilja 1/9 twist barrel, Peterson brass, R-26, long throated. I used Nosler data for 175grABLR. My start load was 55.5/R-26 @2715fps, book load was 2697fps and I worked up to max 59.5/R-26 @2941fps. Its hunting rifle so 3 shot...

forum.nosler.com

 

[std7mag]

Dang, that's smok'n fast!
I'd have to find my old Alliant "manuals", but i remember them having data for the 7mm Rem Mag with 175gr Speer using RL33.
Was about a 200fps jump over RL25 with same weight bullet if i recall correctly.

When RL23 & RL26 became available i made the jump from RL25. Accuracy was greatly improved over RL25!

Lots of F-Class & Benchrest shooters using RL23 in 284 Win with heavy bullets.
But a lot are using RL16 & V160.

I've been playing with the Power Pro series of powders lately.
7mm-08AI with PP2000MR was netting me 2,832fps with ES-6, SD-2 with 140gr Berger VLD. That over 10 rounds.

I have loads worked up in the 284 Win with PP4000MR shooting 140gr and 150gr bullets. Need to run them over a chrono.

 

[old roper 42]

Dang, that's smok'n fast!
I'd have to find my old Alliant "manuals", but i remember them having data for the 7mm Rem Mag with 175gr Speer using RL33.
Was about a 200fps jump over RL25 with same weight bullet if i recall correctly.

When RL23 & RL26 became available i made the jump from RL25. Accuracy was greatly improved over RL25!

Lots of F-Class & Benchrest shooters using RL23 in 284 Win with heavy bullets.
But a lot are using RL16 & V160.

I've been playing with the Power Pro series of powders lately.
7mm-08AI with PP2000MR was netting me 2,832fps with ES-6, SD-2 with 140gr Berger VLD. That over 10 rounds.

I have loads worked up in the 284 Win with PP4000MR shooting 140gr and 150gr bullets. Need to run them over a chrono.

Sounds like you been busy. It's been pretty hot here no funny chrono.