Return Of The Jaguar to Arizona and New Mexico, your thoughts?

pilsner said:
Warner Glen by chance?
Clay Newcombs just did his film premiere of his Warner Glen documentary a couple of weekends ago here in NW Arkansas. It's available on the MeatEater YT channel now. Well worth watching
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That sounds correct. He was a hound man that specialized in tracking dry country using mules for transportation. A government trapper here in OR that I had an opportunity to ride with, had trained with him a little and I believe purchased some dogs for his work here. He let me read the book/documentary, I think it was called "Eyes of Fire", but can't remember for sure. There were pics of the cat bayed; it was impressive!
 
geetar said:
I’m almost always in support of anything that once lived in the US being reintroduced and maintained. The fact that governments don’t always manage them well isn’t a good argument for not having them. IMO any native animals that can be reasonably reintroduced should be and then agencies and hunters should learn over time to manage them properly. I almost feel that we who are alive today owe it to future generations to do what we can to reintroduce and preserve what once was as best we can and that’s no exact science but it should be done if it can be.
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Oh hell yea. How about some prehistoric predators?
 
David58 said:
Please explain why Ibex belong in NM. They're here, but what made them 'belong'?

David
NM
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man thats a tough question...nm put the ibex in the floridas where not much else flourish...nm put the oryx in white sands that have expanded from there where not much flourish...when your talking about wolves and jags that will be a federal deal...nmdgf has managed oryx and ibex well imo...i dont trust the feds on anything, too much green money...id love to see some jags in nm but only if they were managed by the state
 
Ghillieman said:
That cat will behave far different than a Mountain Kitty.. Those cats DO hunt Homo Erectus in certain parts of the world dont see why geo location would be any different.. .... Look at these skull comparisons.

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What are you basing your opinions on? There is actually an excellent book done by a former Arizona biologist, David E, Brown, called "Borderland Jaguars." I can't recommend it (or any of his other books on Southwest wildlife) enough. It is the definitive word on the subject.

Jaguars have been present in the Southwest at low densities since time immemorial. The morphology of the Jaguar in the Southwest and Northern Mexico is very different from those that live in the richer environments of Central and South America. We know this from physical measurements and historical records. It's like comparing a Saskatchewan whitetail to an Arizona whitetail. They have to survive on rodents, rabbits, and small deer. They aren't growing to 300 pounds. In fact, they resemble mountain lions found in the same locales in stature (Warner Glen thought he was chasing a "big tom" when he treed and photographed his first jaguar).

Behaviorally, they are more akin to mountain lions than the "big cats." They are known for docility and evasion. William Vincent Wells stated that "the jaguar is naturally a coward, and is seldom seen except in unfrequented places" talking about his experiences in Honduras.

It has been a while since I read the book, but I can't recall Brown finding any records of human attacks or predation in the historical record in the Southwest. I think the "just wait til one grabs a kid!" is not particularly useful hysterics, considering the multitude of other reasons that a kid can die (drowning in pools in Phoenix, car accidents, rattlesnakes, mauled by a black bear, rabies from bats, spider bites, and so on and so on).

Anyways, this is all kinda moot. There isn't a drive for any sort of re-introduction. The jaguar will continue to be a sporadic visitor to the Southwest. Most people-even houndsmen-will never see one. Protect them, protect the habitat, and maybe we can sustain a natural population of a dozen or two wandering males across the Southwest.
 
I hunted elk with a guy from south Arizona that had pics of 2 jags treed about 30yrds apart in cactus. And couple more bayed up in some rocks.
 
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