MTLabrador
Well-known member
Discussion point of the day: Jaguars are to mountain lions what Canadian super wolves are to regular wolves.
Return Of The Jaguar to Arizona and New Mexico, your thoughts?
- Thread starter Mustangs Rule
- Start date
Mexican super lions has a nice ring to it
375H&H
Well-known member
Thoughts on NM Ibex?
David58
Well-known member
Don't belong here, do they? But here they are.
Preserve and enhance existing habitat for Jaguars. Don't reintroduce them here.
Can do is not should do.
David
NM
375H&H
Well-known member
Southern Arizona is existing jaguar habitat is it not? If they came naturally would that be different?
Not trying to be argumentative just fleshing out ideas.
Anyone remotely interested in jaguars should read “Tigrero”.
BrentD
Well-known member
Yes, they do belong. That's the point.
Ghillieman
Active member
It'll be all fun and games til one drags a kid into the weeds.
Bigger cat equals bigger problems.
Look Im for reintroduction of certain species but these cats may pose some problems down the road.
Bigger cat equals bigger problems.
Look Im for reintroduction of certain species but these cats may pose some problems down the road.
thusby
Well-known member
I can’t wait for game and fish to estimate jaguar numbers. Cat counts are some of my favorites.
Ghillieman
Active member
That cat will behave far different than a Mountain Kitty.. Those cats DO hunt Homo Erectus in certain parts of the world dont see why geo location would be any different.. .... Look at these skull comparisons.
Jaguars and mountain lions are pretty far apart on the feline scale. Jaguars are the only true big cat in the Western Hemisphere. This is loosely associated with skull shape and the ability to “roar” versus “scream” They aren’t the smallest big cat globally as they run bigger than any leopard variety.
My point is that taxonomically they are more large leopard/small tiger while mountain lions are large bobcats. That doesn’t mean they don’t have overlap in prey or range, and since mountain lions live from north to south in the Americas they also aren’t incompatible in the same range.
My point is that taxonomically they are more large leopard/small tiger while mountain lions are large bobcats. That doesn’t mean they don’t have overlap in prey or range, and since mountain lions live from north to south in the Americas they also aren’t incompatible in the same range.
BrentD
Well-known member
Not sure how to interpret this. Mt lions are big cats and they aren't bobcats by any stretch. Jags are bigger cats and leopards are leopards, not jags or Mt lions. All are solitary hunters that routinely take down prey quite a bit bigger than themselves. I'd like to see them back. There was at least one and probably several in AZ, back when I lived there. Never saw even its tracks.
David58
Well-known member
Please explain why Ibex belong in NM. They're here, but what made them 'belong'?
David
NM
BrentD
Well-known member
That was in reference to Jaguars. They belong.
3855WIN
Well-known member
Doesn’t seem like they were ever in the US much. It would be a lot of effort for very little reward.
3855WIN
Well-known member
El Jefe, as he was named by excited local schoolchildren, found his way to good jaguar habitat in the Santa Rita Mountains near Tucson, and there he took up residence. In theory, jaguars and jaguar habitat enjoy legal protection in the United States under the Endangered Species Act. That theory is now being put to the test, because a Canadian mining company, Hudbay Minerals Inc., intends to build a gigantic open-pit copper mine in El Jefe’s home territory. If the project goes ahead, the Rosemont Mine will be the third-largest copper mine in the U.S., with a dollar value estimated in the tens of billions.
For the environmentalists battling the mine, El Jefe has become a vital tool in the courts, and a rallying symbol in the battle to sway public opinion. In Tucson, a craft beer has been named after him, and a mural attests to his popularity. On the other side of the political spectrum, El Jefe has been demonized as a Mexican intruder and a menace to rural families, even though jaguar attacks on humans are incredibly rare.
Supporters of the mine are outraged that one lone Mexican jaguar could hold up such a beneficial project, promising at least 400 jobs and a $701 million annual boost to the local economy over 20 years. Those figures are considered outrageously inflated by opponents of the mine. They predict that most mining jobs would go to existing Hudbay employees, with the bulk of the copper being sold to China, and the profits banked in Canada.
www.smithsonianmag.com
For the environmentalists battling the mine, El Jefe has become a vital tool in the courts, and a rallying symbol in the battle to sway public opinion. In Tucson, a craft beer has been named after him, and a mural attests to his popularity. On the other side of the political spectrum, El Jefe has been demonized as a Mexican intruder and a menace to rural families, even though jaguar attacks on humans are incredibly rare.
Supporters of the mine are outraged that one lone Mexican jaguar could hold up such a beneficial project, promising at least 400 jobs and a $701 million annual boost to the local economy over 20 years. Those figures are considered outrageously inflated by opponents of the mine. They predict that most mining jobs would go to existing Hudbay employees, with the bulk of the copper being sold to China, and the profits banked in Canada.
The Return of the Great American Jaguar
The story of tracking a legendary feline named El Jefe through the Arizona mountains
pilsner
Active member
Warner Glen by chance?
Clay Newcombs just did his film premiere of his Warner Glen documentary a couple of weekends ago here in NW Arkansas. It's available on the MeatEater YT channel now. Well worth watching
Jaguars are cool but I think it’s a bad idea. When there’s very few of a species they like to use that to lock people out of areas. I am suspicious of the movement to reintroduce apex predators everywhere. Started with wolves in Id, mt, wy. Hard to have a surplus of ungulates to hunt when we reintroduce and then protect apex predators. Just my opinion but jaguars are definitely an awesome animal. Could be some negative unintended consequences and some negative intended consequences
As I understand it, there's no current evidence, either historical or paleontological, to show the Jaguar has had a significant presence in the United States. This is the northernmost tip of their range. They are transient visitors and we should protect that but not increase their range beyond it's historical boundaries. We already have the Mexican wolf reintroduction in process. We shouldn't do anything to bugger that up with another endangered species project. If Mexico wants to bolster their numbers good on them.
I saw one in the wild once, at lease I thought it was but may have been a smaller cat. It was in the Amazon north of Manaus.
I saw one in the wild once, at lease I thought it was but may have been a smaller cat. It was in the Amazon north of Manaus.
Yes. It was Warner Glen.
