Rem Model 7 Project

[Biscuit Hunter]

I had spent a lot of time looking for a new rifle that could serve double duty as a walk-around rifle for opportunities at predators while I was scouting and shed hunting, and as an all-around hunting rifle for my son. Something light and handy, but with enough juice to use on elk. When I came across a used stainless/synthetic M7 in 260 Rem, it seemed perfect, so I snatched it up.

The first thing I did was to mount an old scope on it to test some loads to see if it would shoot. Here it is with a Burris 3-9x40:









The scope size seemed out of proportion to the rifle, and it needed a scope of its' own anyway, so I decided to go with a Leupold VXII 2-7x33 with CDS. Here it is now:











And here's a pic to show the difference in proportion between the two:









I think that little Leupold it a great fit. Seven power should be plenty of magnification for our needs, and the eye relief/eye box is very generous.


So that's where I stand now, but I have a question about my next step. I'd like to mount the scope lower down to the bore. The easiest thing to do would be to get a set of Leupolds' standard low-height rings-- those are mediums on it now-- but I'd like to go to a two piece base. I've been eyeing a set of Talley Lightweights. Any thoughts on these rings? Pros and cons? Is there another brand that I should check out?


On to how it shoots... results have varied...

140gr bullets proved accurate, but a little slower than I liked-- the rifle has a 20 inch barrel-- so I tried some 129gr Interlocks that I got through the Hunt Talk bullet exchange. Initial ladder testing went like this:










You won't hear me complaining about that...

Due to availability, I tried a different brand of brass, and had similar results. The most accurate load with both brands of brass had the same powder weight charge-- here are the groups together.










So far so good, but it was just a sample size of two groups, so I did some more testing. On separate days, I fired a four round group and a five round group. Here's what happened:












Since I hadn't changed anything with the rifle or load, my head is screaming "operator error." So here's the question:

For those of you with experience with a variety of rifles, have you noticed that a lightweight rifle magnifies any inconsistencies in shooting form? Are they just harder to shoot consistently well? I'm thinking that I really need to settle down and pay attention to every little bit of my form. The rifle would certainly benefit from a trigger job, and bedding the action and free-floating the barrel are long-term ideas, but I figured that I should fix myself first, and be prepared to coach my son on how to shoot the rifle.

Any thoughts and advice are appreciated...

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

You won't be disappoint with the Talley lightweights. I put them on my 260 build today actually. I did the lows for my Leupold ultralight with the 33mm obj lens, they were perfect, and at under 2oz a pair you can beat them.

There is a pick at this link.
http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=254535&page=3

 

[Redwood]

I also use the talleys, just make sure you don't have to scrunch down to get a full image. The smaller, lighter guns just don't sit as will at the range, then frustration builds up and it all goes to hell. I would power clean the rifle, ensure everything is torqued down to proper specs, the scope is perfectly placed, etc. Then, with the piece of mind that the rig has no issues, I would find my load. Perhaps start with some cheap factories to get a feel for the gun and what it likes to be feed.

Sweet rig by the way

 

[noharleyyet]

A very nice looking rifle...the LW Talleys will complement form and function.

 

[jryoung]

Stainless M7, with a lightweight CDS Leupy chambered in 260....I can't find anything wrong with that combo.

 

[fishing4sanity]

Another vote in favor of the LW Talleys. Plus, when you get the scope height down a little it might also improve a consistent & solid check weld.

 

[cowboy]

The rifle would certainly benefit from a trigger job, and bedding the action and free-floating the barrel are long-term ideas, but I figured that I should fix myself first, and be prepared to coach my son on how to shoot the rifle.

Any thoughts and advice are appreciated...

With the price and availability of ammo now days I would suggest you consider doing a bedding job, trigger, free float, thorough cleaning etc. sooner than later. The way things stand now you won't know if it is equipment or the nut behind the bolt when things don't go well. I don't even light the first primer until everything I want is completed - they all go bang.

As far as Talley Rings - there are very good, have used them for years and I probably put them to the test via horseback more in a week than the normal person would do in a couple years use.

PS: what kind of shape is the crown on the barrel? Used guns are notorious for coming from someone that always had the barrel down in a pickup against whatever on the floor mats.

 

[Gunner46]

Just bought a set of Leupold 2 piece low rings for my AR a couple of days ago. Leupold scope..Leupold rings. Just makes sense to me.

A DIY glass bed and free float job is a relatively easy Sat afternoon project. Just read and follow the instructions and take your time. I did an upper receiver and barrel chamber job on my .308 Carbine and it shrunk the groups significantly !

 

[1_pointer]

With the price and availability of ammo now days I would suggest you consider doing a bedding job, trigger, free float, thorough cleaning etc. sooner than later. The way things stand now you won't know if it is equipment or the nut behind the bolt when things don't go well. I don't even light the first primer until everything I want is completed - they all go bang.

As far as Talley Rings - there are very good, have used them for years and I probably put them to the test via horseback more in a week than the normal person would do in a couple years use.

PS: what kind of shape is the crown on the barrel? Used guns are notorious for coming from someone that always had the barrel down in a pickup against whatever on the floor mats.

Agreed!! As an (in)famous internet poster is fond of saying, Start at the Start!

And yes, lighter rifles are harder to shoot. A few things I read about that have shown useful; 1. put something soft, like a rolled up towel on the front rest. 2. move the front rest back towards the action, 3. A lighter trigger is mo' betta on a lighter rifle.

What was the wind like on the second day of testing? Especially with the 4 shot group, I'm seeing more horizontal dispersion than vertical compared to the previous day.

 

[sbhooper]

That rifle should be great. As to your question about weight, it absolutely makes a difference. I have a Model 600 .308 that is very light with its custom stock. If I really bear down and do my part, it shoots 1/2 minute at 300 yards. If I am not absolutely smooth with my shooting, it looks like it has problems.

 

[T Bone]

Lightweight rifles tend to be finicky. They magnify operator error.

My 30-06 with the mountain contour gave me fits for a while until I got it figured out. It was pillar bedded and free floated. And had inconsistent accuracy. It'd put two or three in a group and then throw the next one way out.

The problem was barrel whip (way more than I thought possible). When the barrel would heat, it'd whip enough to hit the stock, throwing the shot. I relieved the free float even more and problem solved.

 

[Biscuit Hunter]

Thanks for all of the input, guys, I'm hearing some really sound advice.

As far as the rifle goes, the crown is recessed and free of defect, according to my eyes, anyways. I gave it good cleaning right off the bat, and have cleaned the bore down to bare metal between testings, with a couple few fouler rounds fired prior to testing any loads for accuracy.

I wish I would have taken better notes on wind conditions when I was shooting groups, it was different on every test day, but I don't think it was ever enough to account for the horizontal stringing in the four round group.

My next step will be to call up Talley and decide exactly which of their rings I want to go with. I do want to lower the scope a bit, but I need to be careful to maintain adequate clearance between the bolt and the eyepiece of the scope. Their low height rings should be about right.

As to Cowboy's advice about getting things fixed up from the get go, that really hit home. I had planned on having the scope mounted by a smith, to ensure that everything was properly aligned and torqued, so I'll see about getting the trigger cleaned up and some stock work done at the same time.

One great thing about this rifle is that it's really fun to shoot, even when the results aren't so great. I think that after a bit of work to it, and plenty of trigger time, I'm going to be really happy with it.

I look forward to updating you guys as things progress.

Thanks again.

 

[1_pointer]

Try shooting it for a while without cleaning it. Many rifles like to be dirty. I only clean mine when they keep shooting like they should.

 

[sbhooper]

Try shooting it for a while without cleaning it. Many rifles like to be dirty. I only clean mine when they keep shooting like they should.

Yep. Cleaning often does not help your grouping. Barrel makers love it, though, as the barrel will wear out sooner if it is kept real clean. The bullet rides on a thin layer of copper after the fouling shots. If that is kept out, then the steel takes more pounding. This came from a barrel maker.

 

[putm2sleep]

Try shooting it for a while without cleaning it. Many rifles like to be dirty. I only clean mine when they keep shooting like they should.

This!
........only clean the bore when they quit shooting like they should.

 

[pseshooter300]

Looks good get some talley's

 

[cowboy]

Thanks for all of the input, guys, I'm hearing some really sound advice.

I wish I would have taken better notes on wind conditions when I was shooting groups, it was different on every test day, but I don't think it was ever enough to account for the horizontal stringing in the four round group.

I look forward to updating you guys as things progress.

Thanks again.

Considering you are using factory ammo here are a few things you might consider if you are not doing them already regarding horz. stringing

1) Are you using a rear bag under your stock while shooting on bench?
2) Torque from right hand (assuming you are right handed). To test if right hand torque is involved - shoot 3 rounds using your normal way. Follow up with 3 rounds at same target/ammo with your rt hand thumb on top of stock behind your bolt. With very little pressure from your rt. hand small, ring, and social finger shoot 3 more. This can be a challenge with a light rifle in that your brain is going to tell your rt. hand to grab on. This is just like torqueing a bow with your off hand. You can also test this by dry firing and watch to see if your cross hair does/does not move or jump. This is where trigger creep and pressure come into play and the amount of force it takes to break a shot.
3) Left hand - probably best used to support your rear bag and not holding forend or top of scope while test firing from bench
4) Have someone video you shooting off the bench - is your rifle recoiling straight back? If it is jumping to one side and up you are more than likely leaning into the rifle - not behind it. Are you keeping your head down after ignition for complete follow through or is it coming immediately up to see what you hit?
5) check your scope for proper parallex adjustment
6) consitant and repetitive cheek weld on your stock

If you have a decent 22LR with a scope - there is no better/cheaper method to learn proper hold/technique/form/follow through than lots of rounds - a 22LR shot at 100-200-300 yds will sure get your attention and really show you how the wind effects a bullet.
In summary I would suggest LOTS of dry firing - you can do this in your back yard - watch to make sure your trigger break is not causing your cross hairs to move.
Good luck.

 

[MKotur325]

.260 in wind shouldn't be showing 4" of swing for wind at sight in. At 200 yds, it would take a nearly 20mph wind to push 4" of drift. At 100yds it would take about a 35mph wind to shift that slug close to 4"

I definitely agree with what's been stated above. Left hand on rear bag, right hand with TIPS of middle-pinky fingers pushing back on the pistol grip. Let your thumb rest just behind the safety, and be sure that you are not pushing with your thumb while pulling the trigger. Don't grip the stock, no white knuckle shooting!! If your stock position is correct, the rifle will recoil straight back; and you won't need to muscle the rifle in recoil. I also will not place any downward pressure on the forend of the stock or on the barrel. It is nearly impossible to do this consistently. Any inconsistent pressures on the barrel will likely create flyers.

Also, What do you use for a rest when shooting? Do you shoot off a bench top, or off the ground?

To answer your initial question. YES, shooting a light rifle CAN and likely will magnify inconsistencies in shooting fundamentals and technique. Especially with stock positioning, hand placement and pressure, trigger control, and consistency.

 

[MKotur325]

As far as cleaning goes...

Here's what I do!

After each shooting session, I will use a very gentle CLP to remove any Carbon fouling from the barrel. 5 minute process! 2-3 wet patches, lots of dry patches and NO BRUSHES. Excess carbon can have a sand paper like effect on the throat of the barrel, though not as much as over cleaning the barrel.

Most rifles do not build up excess Copper for at least 1000 rounds. To be honest, that's probably more than I will ever put through my hunting rifles...

Here is a good description of why...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbMuknl677A

 

[sbhooper]

My consistency vastly improved with the purchase of lead sled. Your hold is more consistent and even a magnum does not beat you up at the bench. It was some of the best money that I ever spent.