Reintroduction of grizzlys in Selway-Bitterroot Idaho/Montana

[theRedneck]

Tree huggers running amok or future hunting opportunity?


http://www.idahostatesman.com/2014/12/18/3548784_wildlife-group-wants-grizzly-bears.html?sp=/99/1687/&rh=1

 

[Big Fin]

After getting abused, misused, and screwed by the Center for Biological Sterility (Diversity) in the wolf fiasco, under no way shape or form, will I ever agree to a reintroduction of any species that is connected to the ESA as it currently is written and how it allows these groups to lay the pipe to the people with the most at stake.

That is too bad, as there is probably room for Gbears in the S-B area. But, what you are promised by these groups/process is not what you will get. What you will get is decades of litigation just to get a small portion of what was promised. Plus, this will be one more point of leverage for these groups to employ their "sue and burn" policies that are part of their strategy.

Trust me, what they call "wildlife experiments" are really social experiments, with those of us out in the hinterlands being the lab rats for their social experimentation.

Bottom line, if CBD is involved, I will fight it, even if I think Grizzlies are cool critters.

 

[shoots-straight]

This won't happen, and they have no one except themselves to blame for. Reap what you sow. It's unfortunate as the area could hold some Griz numbers. My guess is that they will self colonize the area on their own over time.

 

[opyff]

Then those states better raise their hunting tag prices in order to manage the extra cost of being forced to manage an endangered species. In WY that has been a big discussion over the last few years because of wolf and grizzly management has been such an added cost to the Game and Fish and that added burden gets put right on every hunter's shoulders. The people that want these projects aren't having to foot the bill, hunters are. Plus you have to look at the increasing human/grizzly encounters that occur in this state every year. It's pretty rare to not hear of numerous bear encounters every fall, but luckily the humans come out on top generally. But on the other hand maybe WY should give Idaho and MT some of our bears, seems how we are running out of room and don't have any where else to stash them when they start exploring more populated areas as habitat

 

[theRedneck]

I agree. I'm originally from California and seeing the CBD involved in the ban on lion hunting, trapping ban, hound hunting ban, lead ammo ban, attacking Dan Richards (CAF&G Commission President) over killing a lion in Idaho and even running and supporting "gun violence prevention" campaigns they will never get any support from me.

I'd like to see more grizzlies in Idaho but that's just me.

 

[Gr8bawana]

Personally I wouldn't want to have to be looking over my shoulder when out in the hills.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Wyoming funds their wolf and grizzly bear management through the general fund. The burden isn't on the backs of hunters and anglers alone.

As for a transplant of bears into the S-B, I'd never say never, but it seems like the NCDE DPS and the GYE DPS are both robust enough that it wouldn't make sense to transplant them rather than left them pioneer on their own.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Wyoming funds their wolf and grizzly bear management through the general fund. The burden isn't on the backs of hunters and anglers alone.

As for a transplant of bears into the S-B, I'd never say never, but it seems like the NCDE DPS and the GYE DPS are both robust enough that it wouldn't make sense to transplant them rather than left them pioneer on their own.

Ben is correct on that and I was going to make a post to that effect correcting the member that stated it was hurting the G&F. The G&F doesn't get much GF money, but that is one area that the GF does fund.

 

[mtmuley]

The bears will arrive on their own. One was killed by a black bear hunter close to or possibly in the SB about 6 or 7 years ago. You can search the Kelly Creek grizzly. I know the guide that was there. mtmuley

 

[Nameless Range]

I get excited when I think about grizzlies in the Selway-Bitterroot-Lochsa-Clearwater region. No doubt it is the imagery given to me by books like Bud Moore's "The Lochsa Story", or Elers Koch's "40 Years a Forester". The grizzlies who ate trappers and were trapped themselves, old "peg leg", the character they added to the mountains - all of it amazing stuff.

I agree with shoots-straight that the griz will probably populate the area themselves over time. The CBD can stay out of it. As far back as 7 years ago, a grizzly was shot and killed over bait in the Selway-Bitterroot. It seems inevitable that soon the griz will stretch from Idaho's wilderness to the prairies of Montana. A coworker recently brought a picture of a grizzly in his front yard to work - he lives but ten miles from Helena.

To those who would rather the griz stay in their isolated areas, so that hunters don't have to look over their shoulders in the mountains, I can only quote Tuff Hedeman's character from the movie 8 Seconds, "You're a pu$$...."

Bud Moore says it best in "The Lochsa Story", in his chapter, "The Last of the Bitterroot Grizzlies".....

"By the mid 1940s the most noble animal had disappeared. I sensed, from experience and my own killing, that everything in those mountains was, indeed, linked to everything else. All life in the land of the Lochsa would thus shift in some way or other in reaction to the bears' passing. One could but wonder how the 'Wyakin' could continue to give strength with the grizzlies gone from the mountains. The Bitterroots had become a lesser place than they were when the grizzlies flourished. Those silvertips, you see, were a special part of the mountains' wildness. And, so far as I was concerned, no conceivable change short of their return could replace the emptiness left behind by the last of the great bears."

 

[TheJason]

I get excited when I think about grizzlies in the Selway-Bitterroot-Lochsa-Clearwater region. No doubt it is the imagery given to me by books like Bud Moore's "The Lochsa Story", or Elers Koch's "40 Years a Forester". The grizzlies who ate trappers and were trapped themselves, old "peg leg", the character they added to the mountains - all of it amazing stuff.

I agree with shoots-straight that the griz will probably populate the area themselves over time. The CBD can stay out of it. As far back as 7 years ago, a grizzly was shot and killed over bait in the Selway-Bitterroot. It seems inevitable that soon the griz will stretch from Idaho's wilderness to the prairies of Montana. A coworker recently brought a picture of a grizzly in his front yard to work - he lives but ten miles from Helena.

To those who would rather the griz stay in their isolated areas, so that hunters don't have to look over their shoulders in the mountains, I can only quote Tuff Hedeman's character from the movie 8 Seconds, "You're a pu$$...."

Bud Moore says it best in "The Lochsa Story", in his chapter, "The Last of the Bitterroot Grizzlies".....

"By the mid 1940s the most noble animal had disappeared. I sensed, from experience and my own killing, that everything in those mountains was, indeed, linked to everything else. All life in the land of the Lochsa would thus shift in some way or other in reaction to the bears' passing. One could but wonder how the 'Wyakin' could continue to give strength with the grizzlies gone from the mountains. The Bitterroots had become a lesser place than they were when the grizzlies flourished. Those silvertips, you see, were a special part of the mountains' wildness. And, so far as I was concerned, no conceivable change short of their return could replace the emptiness left behind by the last of the great bears."

Well said.

 

[ida homer]

Ill pass on the G bears, that's what Wyoming and yellowstone are for

 

[RobertR]

The way I see it if the ESA and the CBD is involved it's not good for any recreation or jobs.
The reasoning behind any island population introduction of any species is to have the animal introduced and relisted under the ESA.

Look what the buffalo field campaign is trying with the yellowstone buffalo by trying to get them listed as endangered.

 

[1_pointer]

This reminds me of some work I was involved in. A very large, well known ranch in No. Utah was contacted by USFWS about their willingness to be a reintroduction site for black footed ferrets. Long story short, the ranch agreed but with a couple of stipulations. First, was that the county commission held the permit and that they could terminate the project at any time. Second, that a certain conservation group would sign an agreement to not use the BFF as part of any lawsuit within in the reintroduction or potential habitat area. The group did not agree and thus there are not BFF there...

 

[idnative1948]

I have to side with *Shoots* and *Muley* regarding self colonization. JMHO

 

[.280 Remington]

After getting abused, misused, and screwed by the Center for Biological Sterility (Diversity) in the wolf fiasco, under no way shape or form, will I ever agree to a reintroduction of any species that is connected to the ESA as it currently is written and how it allows these groups to lay the pipe to the people with the most at stake.

That is too bad, as there is probably room for Gbears in the S-B area. But, what you are promised by these groups/process is not what you will get. What you will get is decades of litigation just to get a small portion of what was promised. Plus, this will be one more point of leverage for these groups to employ their "sue and burn" policies that are part of their strategy.

Trust me, what they call "wildlife experiments" are really social experiments, with those of us out in the hinterlands being the lab rats for their social experimentation.

Bottom line, if CBD is involved, I will fight it, even if I think Grizzlies are cool critters.

++1

 

[HSi-ESi]

Nature healing itself should always be the preferred route. There are too many negatives for anyone pushing for reintroduction - especially with the track record of CBD.

I personally like hunting / being around other large predators. A person does have a different experience when they are present.

The Grizzlies will make it back into that area on their own time (and in the near future).

 

[LopeHunter]

If they self-migrate, so be it. Otherwise, no interest in promoting reintroduction of predators when other predators exist in the eco-system that are capable of achieving the population goals of mainstream biologists.

 

[sra61]

Personally I wouldn't want to have to be looking over my shoulder when out in the hills.

Grizzlies are cool animals, I agree, and I enjoy watching them. They are all over The Flathead. It's just a matter of time before one packs off little Suzy Q for a little snack. I have a hard time believing their numbers are not recovered. But apparently they aren't because they would be delisted. We had a griz follow us a couple of years ago hunting in late November in pretty deep snow. He kind of false charged us, and if it had just been me, I probably would have fixed him, but my brother kept a calmer head. I don't trust them, especially when they get within 30 of 40 yards. That one was well within that range. I would never trust anyone having to do with any reintroduction or anything having to do with Grizzly or Wolves. It's almost like they look at them as something they worship. I reject the idea that that bear or wolf has any more right to exist than I do. I can tell you that I as a human am at the TOP of the food chain, and reserve the right to end him if he threatens me or mine!

 

[----]

Love the Bud Moore quote above.

The good majority of that country is really only good for growing goats, bears, and moose. It's big, empty country, and Grizzlies would definitely add to it, and probably thrive there. Huge berry crops. I don't know if people really realize how big of an area it is, that is for the most part untouched. The Selway, Frank Church, Great Burn, and Bitterroot Mountains are for all intents and purposes the same piece of roadless territory. Here's a comparison I did between the above mentioned area, and the Bob Marshall/Glacier complex. The Selway/Bitterroot/Frank is in red, the Bob Marshall is in yellow-

They do pass through occasionally, but I don't think it's real common.

No way I see this proposal going through. Hopefully they start wandering in and get established on their own.