Reintroduction of grizzlys in Selway-Bitterroot Idaho/Montana

[BigHornRam]

Jamie Jonkel did a slide show presentation at a meeting I attended a couple years ago. Very interesting. One monitored bear denned two winters ago within 10 miles of downtown Missoula. They are spreading out fairly well on their own.

 

[BuzzH]

Yes.

Do you remember when that auctioneer turned politician from Missouri that Montana elected to represent them a few years back? Ran by the name Conrad Burns.

He fleeced the U.S. taxpayers out of an appropriation to study the viability of the food source in the S/B as he was sure the gubbermit biologists were full of crap.

He got the appropriation and hand picked his expert to conduct the study. Conrads hand picked "boy" came back with his results and those results were that the S/B could support MORE grizzlies than the gubbermit biologists thought.

Based on the science, and leaving politics out of it, there is no viable scientific reason to not reestablish grizzlies in the S/B.

If you're going to drag your usual political BS and unfounded GB phobia into it...spare me the drama.

BTW, you can drop off my case of beer you owe me at shoots straights place...no cheap stuff either.

 

[----]

Is there a significant amounts of salmon and whitebark pine in The Bob and Glacier? What're those bears eating? Every pile of bear crap I find in the fall in NW MT is full of berries, I'm still missing why grizzlies won't eat the same berries in the Selway that the black bears do, and that other grizzlies do in adjacent areas.

 

[BigHornRam]

Yes.

Do you remember when that auctioneer turned politician from Missouri that Montana elected to represent them a few years back? Ran by the name Conrad Burns.

He fleeced the U.S. taxpayers out of an appropriation to study the viability of the food source in the S/B as he was sure the gubbermit biologists were full of crap.

He got the appropriation and hand picked his expert to conduct the study. Conrads hand picked "boy" came back with his results and those results were that the S/B could support MORE grizzlies than the gubbermit biologists thought.

Based on the science, and leaving politics out of it, there is no viable scientific reason to not reestablish grizzlies in the S/B.

If you're going to drag your usual political BS and unfounded GB phobia into it...spare me the drama.

BTW, you can drop off my case of beer you owe me at shoots straights place...no cheap stuff either.

A simple yes would have sufficed Buzz.

I think you're going to get your wish. I'll get some Coors Light for you, and hopefully Shoot's doesn't drink it all.

 

[BuzzH]

I doubt it, I think the reestablishment via natural migration is going to be where its at. IMO, at the way grizzlies are expanding, that may be the best option.

With you back on the forum....he may very well drink it all...HA!

 

[BigHornRam]

I doubt it, I think the reestablishment via natural migration is going to be where its at. IMO, at the way grizzlies are expanding, that may be the best option.

So is that a lukewarm no on reintroduction, now Buzz? Dude, make up your mind!

 

[BuzzH]

Its about what will happen in reality.

 

[shoots-straight]

So BHR, I want this done right!

If the Grizzly bears show up in the Selway, that means they did in fact not starve to death. So will you agree that your statement was Bulls crap?

Your contention is:
That there isn't enough food for a Grizzly bear in the Selway and so they can't survive there. So if a Grizzly shows up at what point will you conseed that your statement is full of BS, and you lose the bet? How long do Grizzlies have to be in there (documented) before I get my beer.

How far will you backpedal on your statement?

Everyone of the old guard on Hunt Talk knows you owe me that case of Coors because your claim was we would not be hunting wolves. So now we are also trapping them, but that wasn't even a question on your part because (according to you) we would never have had the opportunity to manage wolves at all. EVER!

 

[BigHornRam]

Shoots,

The article is about reintroducing grizzlies into the SB Wilderness. Reintroduction means a trap and transplant program into the Selway. If they move into the Selway on their own it is not a reintroduction program. Got it?

If 20 grizzlies are reintroduced into the SB, I am saying 11+ will not make it, due to poor nutrition. They will be collared. Should be easy to prove.

You have the past wolf bet all wrong, just like this one.

 

[JLS]

If 20 grizzlies are reintroduced into the SB, I am saying 11+ will not make it, due to poor nutrition. They will be collared. Should be easy to prove.

Highly unlikely. A grizzly bear can survive on the same stuff a black bear can, and the S/B (and Frank Church for that matter) is pretty well loaded with black bears.

 

[shoots-straight]

BHR, does not matter if they are introduced or move in on there own. Your big claim was more than half , or majority will die from lack of food.

Now it really doesn't matter how they get in there does it. If a population shows up does that not prove your full of BS again?

Are we hunting wolves?

Have we been hunting wolves?

Trapping wolves?

Your claim was that those things would never happen.

Typical backpedaling upon your part. Doesn't surprise me in the least.

 

[BigHornRam]

Shoot's,

My claim was delisting would take at least 2 years from that point to occur. Your claim was it would occur that year. It ended up taking 1+ years to happen. So neither of us won "the bet". Go look it up.

Natural establishment over a long period of time is much different then dumping a substantial population in there, in a short period of time.

Do you think the enviro kooks will get this reintroduction thing rolling, Shoot's?

 

[BigHornRam]

Highly unlikely. A grizzly bear can survive on the same stuff a black bear can, and the S/B (and Frank Church for that matter) is pretty well loaded with black bears.

So you want in on the bet as well, JLS?

 

[JLS]

So you want in on the bet as well, JLS?

Spell out the terms.

I don't think there is any way that 20 grizz will get dumped in the S/B, but even if they did there is no way that 11 of them would die of starvation.

 

[shoots-straight]

Do you think the enviro kooks will get this reintroduction thing rolling, Shoot's? __________________

Nope!

 

[BigHornRam]

Nope!

The envro kooks have been waiting patiently for 6 years for Obama to throw them a bone. Looks like they are done waiting. Why do you think the USFWS will block this reintroduction effort, Shoot's?

It's Go Time!

 

[BigHornRam]

Spell out the terms.

I don't think there is any way that 20 grizz will get dumped in the S/B, but even if they did there is no way that 11 of them would die of starvation.

20 griz minimum reintroduction. Hungry bears that get into trouble, and have to be put down, count. 5 year time frame.

 

[shoots-straight]

The envro kooks have been waiting patiently for 6 years for Obama to throw them a bone. Looks like they are done waiting. Why do you think the USFWS will block this reintroduction effort, Shoot's?

It's Go Time!

It's not even being discussed at the Governmental level. Why are you so worried? Bored?

 

[BigHornRam]

It's not even being discussed at the Governmental level.

The enviro kooks have filled a petition which must be addressed in a timely manner by the USFWS. It is being discussed at the "Governmental" level.

I'm not worried. I actually think this reintroduction effort will happen. I also think people in Idaho would be more tolerant with grizzlies, if they were allowed to return on their own, than having them shoved down their throats. That would be better for the grizzlies, long term, would it not, Shoot's?

 

[shoots-straight]

The enviro kooks have filled a petition which must be addressed in a timely manner by the USFWS. It is being discussed at the "Governmental" level.

I'm sure this group has far more pull than any other and that it's getting LOTS of attention. Might get up the ladder higher than the mail room attendant.