Quick question for food plot experts

[VAspeedgoat]

Two modes of action are always better and make a more effective kill. For a few dollars an acre it's a no brainer. Roundup is only effective on broadleaf weeds under a few inches tall unless higher rates of both sticker and Roundup are used. It is cheaper to add the 2,4-D. Anything that is woody stemmed will only be defoliated by Roundup. It will be back later. Anything in a rossette with a taproot will only be stunted. Some weeds that are airborne like marestail won't even look sick after an application of Roundup. By airborne I mean seed that travels miles by air.

Unlikely to occur in this case but Roundup resistant weeds come from only using one mode of action.

Also, not trying to be disagreeable 88 man, just from a farm perspective that's my thought process. Sounds like you know your stuff though.

 

[stevejfarms]

Two modes of action are always better and make a more effective kill. For a few dollars an acre it's a no brainer. Roundup is only effective on broadleaf weeds under a few inches tall unless higher rates of both sticker and Roundup are used. It is cheaper to add the 2,4-D. Anything that is woody stemmed will only be defoliated by Roundup. It will be back later. Anything in a rossette with a taproot will only be stunted. Some weeds that are airborne like marestail won't even look sick after an application of Roundup. By airborne I mean seed that travels miles by air.

Unlikely to occur in this case but Roundup resistant weeds come from only using one mode of action.

Also, not trying to be disagreeable 88 man, just from a farm perspective that's my thought process. Sounds like you know your stuff though.

I agree completely...depending on your location, roundup resistance can be a major hurdle. If you have a farmer buddy, buy from him. We buy roundup, 2,4-d, etc. in quantity, and get it much cheaper than the local home improvement stores.

 

[get-n-birdy]

Not saying to use diesel or know if it's legal in your area as herbicide additive, check with your states reg's. But diesel can be a readily available and a highly effective surfactant combined with gly for woody or broadleaf vegetation. The railroads, farmers and foresters have used it to control broadleaf vegetation with or without gly.

 

[MITCHMO]

Wow there is a lot of good info here. So I feel silly for asking but those of you that say “don’t till” how do you do that? Do I need a drill for that?
88 man, great advice and thank you.

 

[MITCHMO]

I wouldn't disc anything. I stopped 3 years ago and my plots get better instead of worse every year.

How do you seed then? Pardon my ignorance.

 

[huntinsonovagun]

Wow there is a lot of good info here. So I feel silly for asking but those of you that say “don’t till” how do you do that? Do I need a drill for that?
88 man, great advice and thank you.

First of all, DO NOT use diesel as a surfactant. Just because guys have used it for years doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. Spraying it on a driveway or something, maybe.... but that would be the only place I’d consider it.

I sprayed the tall weedy vegetation with glyphosate to “burn” off the unwanted. Then you can either seed and then mow, or mow and then seed. You’re wanting the thatch layer to act as a mulch. I even went over mine with a mower a couple of times. In theory, to shake all the seeds down to get good soil contact. Google “throw and mow food plot” and you’ll have a decent understanding of the principles.

This is all assuming you’ve already done soil tests and made the necessary adjustments.

 

[huntinsonovagun]

A no-till drill would be optimal, but not everyone has access or equipment. A drill would broaden the variety of plants you would have success with, in my opinion.
Just remember you’re not looking for a pristine field to cash crop...you’re just feeding the deer. Keep it in perspective!

Wired to Hunt had a pretty good podcast last year with Grant Woods. (Whether you like DrWoods or not, I thought it was intriguing info)

 

[get-n-birdy]

Gly is a pretty big carcinogen and not good for us humans no matter what Monsanto says. Just like diesel was once widely accepted years ago, gly won't be years from now even though the rep's use to drink the salt water flavored weed killer koolaid. Plus lots of plants become resistant to it. Wouldn't use gly without really understanding the safety concerns, using proper safety equipment, staying out of its drift, really cleaning equipment up after using it because of how corrosive it is and having a change of clothes. Plus keeping kids away from it. Have done more without gly recently, with discing and planting immediately after, right before a rain and with certain seed varieties it can work very well, especially with cereal grains. It's less time consuming, less work intensive and saves money. But other times it can backfire and end up with little to no germination rates. Other than dormant weed seeds and it can be a major waste of time and cash to not spend the time killing off vegetation with gly.

Seed to soil contact is vital. Smaller seeds don't need much for soil disturbance from tilling, but they do need to find the soil and make seed to soil contact to germinate. To much organic matter in terms of dead grass or thick sod impeding seed to get to the soil really depletes germination rates for seeds spread via broadcasting with the no till method and you have to over seed to make it effectively worthwhile which can cost more money in seed because your germination rates will be lower. Doing it right the first time with taking care of getting rid of vegetation properly can save a lot of headaches down the road vs trying to cut corners and doing the no till easy method. Have done it and likes been said, it is a food plot and is all about perspective. But most times results of easier methods are reflective of the effort put in. If you got the tractor, disc and drive to do it, spraying, discing and compacting the soil if doing smaller seeds is the correct process to plant in theory. Seeds like clover, chicory, brassicas etc are tiny and shouldn't be buried in the soil, hence cultipacking the soil after tilling, and they do better on the top of the soil, yet pressed in via a cultipacker on a hard seed bed after planting as well. That can be achieved with multiple passes with a wheeler, utv, lawn mower or tractor to push them in. The germination rates go up significantly going through the proper steps. Oats, rye, wheat, etc need a touch more soil depth but can do ok if pressed into the soil right before a rain in softer, richer soils with a no till method, but it's more prone to luck and getting good rainfall.

No matter what is planted, proper soil tests, correct dates for planting, and before a good rain, not epic flood, help a ton vs planting in the middle of a long drought, on the wrong dates, in a soil that has a bad ph level and needs for growing what's being planted and not applying the proper amount of lime and fertilizers. All steps in the procedure many try to avoid and pay for in a lack of results and high rates of disappointment after a lot of work, with high expectations.

There are a lot of variables that take time to iron out and learn what works in certain soils and conditions. Sometimes certain things work better than others because of moisture levels or lack thereof. Things change from year to year and what worked last year might not work the next year. But thought and sweat equity can pay off with a beautiful, lush, green plot.

 

[88man]

A no-till drill would be optimal, but not everyone has access or equipment. A drill would broaden the variety of plants you would have success with, in my opinion.
Just remember you’re not looking for a pristine field to cash crop...you’re just feeding the deer. Keep it in perspective!

Wired to Hunt had a pretty good podcast last year with Grant Woods. (Whether you like DrWoods or not, I thought it was intriguing info)

I like Dr Woods

 

[NYyotekiller]

Wow there is a lot of good info here. So I feel silly for asking but those of you that say “don’t till” how do you do that? Do I need a drill for that?
88 man, great advice and thank you.

Throw and Mow is a great method that should work for you and a lot of guys are practicing this with success. Here is a link to another forum where it is discussed in detail.

Throw N Mow thread...

Dedicating this thread to all of the folks who do the throw N Mow method... I have both throw n mow, and traditional tillage plots side by side on one of our properties. I got the throw N Mow done last Saturday and as soon as I got it done we got almost 1/2" of rain on it but it was extremely...

deerhunterforum.com

 

[88man]

Two modes of action are always better and make a more effective kill. For a few dollars an acre it's a no brainer. Roundup is only effective on broadleaf weeds under a few inches tall unless higher rates of both sticker and Roundup are used. It is cheaper to add the 2,4-D. Anything that is woody stemmed will only be defoliated by Roundup. It will be back later. Anything in a rossette with a taproot will only be stunted. Some weeds that are airborne like marestail won't even look sick after an application of Roundup. By airborne I mean seed that travels miles by air.

Unlikely to occur in this case but Roundup resistant weeds come from only using one mode of action.

Also, not trying to be disagreeable 88 man, just from a farm perspective that's my thought process. Sounds like you know your stuff though.

I am not either. We typically spray and seed the same day. So you would add 24d even if you were seeding the same day? A legume? Im not so sure this is a no brainer.

 

[bushman13]

Amazing you guys would recommend gly or 24d for a small woods plot.

 

[88man]

Amazing you guys would recommend gly or 24d for a small woods plot.

Really why? Whats a small wood plot? 1/2 ac or 3 acres? Everyone has differing thoughts on the scale of there plotting. I typically plant about 30 acres a year plots that range from 1/2 ac to 6 acres

 

[bushman13]

I've been putting in food plots most of my adult life, up until my recent move to CO. Never once has it crossed my mind to douse the area with a carcinogen and endocrine disrupter. If you don't care about possible effects on humans, maybe care about about the well documented effect on fish and amphibians?

Or continue to spray poisons and continue to scratch your head when half the town has cancer.

Really why? Whats a small wood plot? 1/2 ac or 3 acres? Everyone has differing thoughts on the scale of there plotting. I typically plant about 30 acres a year plots that range from 1/2 ac to 6 acres

 

[huronmtns]

What plants are you planning on putting in you food plot? Is the soil type supportive of those plants. With blueberry and pine in the picture I'm guessing the soil is pretty acidic and drains quickly, it may need alot of modification to support your targeted plant species. Being from the UP, blueberry bushes are pretty much only found in sandy soil with very thin soil horizons. These horizons may not support deep rooted plant species. I'm guessing the soil by TC are similar where you are located. You might want to talk to some one local to see what they made work.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

I am not either. We typically spray and seed the same day. So you would add 24d even if you were seeding the same day? A legume? Im not so sure this is a no brainer.

You are correct if sowing a legume. I'd wait a week or two or one good rain. If I was trying to kill woody plants with only Roundup I'd throw in something like crop oil and a high quality surfactant to help.

 

[88man]

You are correct if sowing a legume. I'd wait a week or two or one good rain. If I was trying to kill woody plants with only Roundup I'd throw in something like crop oil and a high quality surfactant to help.

Crop oil is antagonistic to round up, tryclopyr great on woody vegetation

 

[stevejfarms]

I've been putting in food plots most of my adult life, up until my recent move to CO. Never once has it crossed my mind to douse the area with a carcinogen and endocrine disrupter. If you don't care about possible effects on humans, maybe care about about the well documented effect on fish and amphibians?

Or continue to spray poisons and continue to scratch your head when half the town has cancer.

proof?

 

[stevejfarms]

Gly is a pretty big carcinogen and not good for us humans no matter what Monsanto says.

Proof?

 

[88man]

Proof?

There is no proof we all know that. However, a san Francisco Judge said its so.