I'd have to say I'm more impressed with the numbers in and around the 703 district than I would have thought. But then again I do believe mule deer in particular have a cyclic reproductive pattern so no matter how they are managed there will still be years in low numbers then all of a sudden the following year they will have seemed to have just exploded.
Question on Montana leftover Deer B tags
- Thread starter 8andcounting
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.280 Remington
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I've done that before. Sorry state of affairs.
.280 Remington
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Rabbits and pheasants are cyclic. Mule deer, not so much.
Poke 'Em
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Interesting. I have observed just the opposite. Very few deer, even fewer does, and only 2 fawns all year in an area where I'm used to seeing lots of MD.
T
tjones
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Just because it legal doesn't necessarily make it right. Just sayin..............
BuzzH
Well-known member
True story, and one I learned the hard way. Its shocking how many deer can be killed, even WT deer, in a situation of multiple b-tags...even worse when they're OTC.
Regarding the comment that the MTFWP needs the funding for making decisions like this, cant help but think, at a whopping $10 each, that 75K is not going to change much in the over-all budget.
Whats appalling to me is that the MTFWP and the MT hunting public, have deemed a mule deer does life is worth a measly $10.
I think the comment above about a few landowners whining about "all the deer" is probably spot on. That happens here in Wyoming as well. I attended a season setting meeting in Laramie where an antelope doe quota was set at 25. I asked the biologist why only 25 doe tags. He said they didn't get the best fawn recruitment in that particular unit the last 2-3 years. So, I asked him why not just issue ZERO doe tags until the recruitment was at appropriate levels. He said there was one landowner with a center pivot in the unit that demanded they issue some doe tags.
I caught up with the biologist after the public testimony and asked him how many of those 25 doe tags were filled on that guys place with the center pivot. He said, "probably not very many, but at least this way we can say we 'did something' to address the 'problem'."
Its frustrating...the antelope does that are in the field with the center pivot never get shot, the antelope does on public land get killed.
I know the same things happens in Montana with deer, the landowners that bitch about deer wont let anyone on to even shoot does, so the guys with a pocket full of b-tags pound the public land deer.
This crap needs to be addressed and IMO, the doe mule deer b-tags should NOT be valid on public land.
Anyone that can make the claim that there is a biological need to kill mule deer does on public land in region 7, and that there are too many mule deer on public land,...is a liar.
Highwood
Active member
When FW&P spots a dozen muley does in a hay field, it's be hard to figure that this could be the entire herd for 10 sq miles or so. 
Highwood
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8andcounting
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im hunting block management and blm . so yes, ill be one public land atleast part of the time. But I decided im leaving my B tag at home ill donate my $75 NR tag fee to saving atleast one doe.
teamhoyt
Well-known member
8 that is your personal choice. I wouldn't let the feelings of those of us on here dissuade you from taking an animal that your legally allowed to either. What ever you decide have a good time in MT. I currently have a tag and may or may not use it when the time comes, we'll see.
8andcounting
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ok, and thanks, and I don't take any comments here harshly, I agree with 99% of what has been input . Im spending 4-5 days in region 7 and then moving on to region 4 for a full week, have a private ranch there to hunt and also picked up a region 4 elk B tag.
antlerradar
Well-known member
There is a time when doe tags were needed. Now is not one of those times. The mule deer population in my part of region 7 is improving but far from recovered. Much of the improvement has been on private land in the productive river bottoms.
Far too many of the doe tags are filled on public where deer numbers are still far below average. Far to few are filled on private were the herd could use some thinning. Some day FWP in region 7 needs to give up on a management strategy based on the law of diminishing returns. I hope it is soon. It should have happened 30 years ago.
Why FWP felt compelled to issue doe tags this year is beyond me. It could be that they could use the money. It in not a lot but every bit helps.
It could be that landowners are bending FWPs ear, but landowners feelings run a full circle. I know some landowners that are in Block Management that are complaining about lack of deer and want zero doe tags issued. Some landowners complain every time they see a deer in a alfalfa field and want them all shot. I can not relate to them. Some want lower numbers but let few people hunt. Hard to feel sorry for them. Some want lots of does because it is good for business. Showing clients 200 deer in a day gets you repeat customers. Having lots of nearly tame does on your hay fields will bring bucks out of the hills in November to where they are available to the pickup hunters.
It could be that FWPs survey method is flawed. FWP takes flies there surveys on winter range in late winter. This is the best time to get the over all number of deer. The problem in that you can not tell the difference between deer that spend hunting season on public and deer that spend hunting season on private. Most deer winter on or close to public land where I live. Eighty to ninety percent of the mule deer sheds I have found were on or within 1/4 mile of public land. Doing the deer counts in late winter could give you and inflated number of deer that are available to hunters. This is especially true if the survey is done near ranches that are harboring large numbers of deer.
Will it doe tags be need in the future? yes,but FWP needs to do a better job of insuring that the tags are used where they are needed. Just issuing region wide tags and hoping for the best like they do now is domed to fail.
Far too many of the doe tags are filled on public where deer numbers are still far below average. Far to few are filled on private were the herd could use some thinning. Some day FWP in region 7 needs to give up on a management strategy based on the law of diminishing returns. I hope it is soon. It should have happened 30 years ago.
Why FWP felt compelled to issue doe tags this year is beyond me. It could be that they could use the money. It in not a lot but every bit helps.
It could be that landowners are bending FWPs ear, but landowners feelings run a full circle. I know some landowners that are in Block Management that are complaining about lack of deer and want zero doe tags issued. Some landowners complain every time they see a deer in a alfalfa field and want them all shot. I can not relate to them. Some want lower numbers but let few people hunt. Hard to feel sorry for them. Some want lots of does because it is good for business. Showing clients 200 deer in a day gets you repeat customers. Having lots of nearly tame does on your hay fields will bring bucks out of the hills in November to where they are available to the pickup hunters.
It could be that FWPs survey method is flawed. FWP takes flies there surveys on winter range in late winter. This is the best time to get the over all number of deer. The problem in that you can not tell the difference between deer that spend hunting season on public and deer that spend hunting season on private. Most deer winter on or close to public land where I live. Eighty to ninety percent of the mule deer sheds I have found were on or within 1/4 mile of public land. Doing the deer counts in late winter could give you and inflated number of deer that are available to hunters. This is especially true if the survey is done near ranches that are harboring large numbers of deer.
Will it doe tags be need in the future? yes,but FWP needs to do a better job of insuring that the tags are used where they are needed. Just issuing region wide tags and hoping for the best like they do now is domed to fail.
8andcounting
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Ok, so heres a update, Just got home from a 3 day hunt in HD 703 , hunted a lot of ground, covered average of 4-5 miles per day on foot and a lot of miles on the truck in blm land . Total stats.... in 3 days we saw 10 mule deer doe's and 13 mule bucks (3 were pretty nice but I elected to pass with my gen tag) the goal was to get my wife her first mule deer with a B tag, it never worked out, we could never get close enough or steady enough where she felt comfortable and we came home empty handed which is fine, the weather was great and we had a great time, but theres no deer on public land...... I think the B tags should be limited to private land, just my .02 cents worth
