Proposed Trail Cam Ban

[Josh Kuntz]

If it was up to me, I would follow the Montana model of all cams being required to be pulled before ANY hunting season starts. As a secondary requirement, any cameras on public land would be required to have the owner's full name. A final requirement would be a fee paid to the state fish and game for every camera used. And an all out ban on wireless transmission.

This will be interesting to follow. My sources tell me that 70% of responses thus far do not support any new rules regarding cameras.

 

[COEngineer]

While I was sheep hunting in the Sangre De Cristo wilderness I came upon a trail camera. I was not sure of the regulations concerning trail cams in the wilderness so I called the Sawatch District office to ask. The response was that it is probably the USFS's camera! I don't understand how the agency that is supposed to be protecting our wilderness can ignore the "Leave No Trace" ethic so blatantly. According to the Wilderness Act, "wilderness has outstanding opportunities for solitude." I felt my solitude was thrown out the window when I realized I had just set up camp 30 ft from a trail camera that was recording my comings and goings to the nearby stream.

Edit 23 Jan 2020: I had forgotten all about this post. After the above mentioned phone call, I e-mailed the coords for the camera to the USFS and the guy replied with something to the effect of, "Oh, THAT <insert name> Creek! THAT is definitely not our camera, then, and should not be there." Apparently there is another creek with the same name in the next mountain range, which he had confused with the one I was familiar with.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

While I was sheep hunting in the Sangre De Cristo wilderness I came upon a trail camera. I was not sure of the regulations concerning trail cams in the wilderness so I called the Sawatch District office to ask. The response was that it is probably the USFS's camera! I don't understand how the agency that is supposed to be protecting our wilderness can ignore the "Leave No Trace" ethic so blatantly. According to the Wilderness Act, "wilderness has outstanding opportunities for solitude." I felt my solitude was thrown out the window when I realized I had just set up camp 30 ft from a trail camera that was recording my comings and goings to the nearby stream.

Could have also been a CPW camera, either way I'm all about letting wildlife mangers use whatever means necessary to gather scientific data to manage our wildlife populations. Although I totally agree I hate trail cameras out there... it definitely diminishes the experience when I find other peoples technology in the woods.

 

[boonerville]

Genuinely curious here...why so much hate towards trail cameras? If someone doesn't want to use them, that's one thing, but telling others they are not fair chase hunters if they choose to use them is quite a stretch. There are over 1 million trail cameras sold in the United States every year...are all of those hunters unethical? If a trail camera makes a hunt not fair chase...does bait? camo? binoculars? rangefinders? ATVs? spotting scopes? rifles? compound bows? food plots? tree stands? Pack Horses? Gps units? Google Earth? hunting apps on your phone? All of those things are used by hunters to do one thing...increase chances of success. Nobody is running around the Rockies chasing elk in a loincloth and a spear (Geez I hope not anyway). We all want to increase our chances of success...why would we want to "ban" or limit the method a person chooses to do so? A trail camera is just a modern evolution of what native American tribes used to do centuries ago laying branches across trails to see when animals were using it...then came hunters using fishing line...then came the trail timer (who is old enough to remember those?)...Then came 35mm flash trail cameras like looked like a suitcase strapped to a tree...then came the first Infrared cameras...and now we have technology that can transmit images via cellular network. Other hunting technology has evolved over time...why is trail camera technology such a problem? If anyone thinks a trail camera makes it that much easier to kill an animal they haven't had much experience. I am one of those spoken about that runs a lot of cameras...truthfully I have over 50 out at this moment, spread out across 5 states. I have done such since 2010 or 2011. In all that time...literally millions of pictures taken, I can honestly count on one hand the number of animals I have killed that I had pictures of. I would argue trail cameras make you less successful because they tell you what is out there. I have passed up hundreds of animals in the last 10 years that I had pictures of, but didn't want to shoot them because my cameras told me there was something bigger out there somewhere. Many times this has caused me to eat my tag. But the few times I have succeeded, I cannot even describe the sense of satisfaction I got from it. After multiple years of hunting a particular animal and failing...being beaten by an animal over an over again, even with the aid of a fleet of cameras, and then finally getting one split second opportunity...does that mean it was not a fair chase hunt? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

 

[Straight Arrow]

There are over 1 million trail cameras sold in the United States every year...

...truthfully I have over 50 out at this moment, spread out across 5 states.

...literally millions of pictures

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Public land "big brother" hunter is watching you!

 

[BrentD]

Could have also been a CPW camera, either way I'm all about letting wildlife mangers use whatever means necessary to gather scientific data to manage our wildlife populations. Although I totally agree I hate trail cameras out there... it definitely diminishes the experience when I find other peoples technology in the woods.

I used to be trail camera neutral, but these sorts of things and comments like, "I have over 50 out at this moment, spread out across 5 states" has pushed me towards the "anticamera" camp. 1. I like a certain expectation of privacy, and 2. I tend to think we already have way too many technological advantages these days.

 

[boonerville]

I used to be trail camera neutral, but these sorts of things and comments like, "I have over 50 out at this moment, spread out across 5 states" has pushed me towards the "anticamera" camp. 1. I like a certain expectation of privacy, and 2. I tend to think we already have way too many technological advantages these days.

But WHY is trail camera technology so much worse than other technology? There have been technological advances in every single thing we use in the woods. why is that technology ok but cameras are not? That makes no sense. If a hunter can use a fuel powered vehicle, wear ultra realistic printed carbon infused camo clothing, use high powered optics, sitting on top of the most technologically advanced center fire rifle ever produced, use a computer and apps to study maps and property boundaries from thousands of miles away, and that be considered fair chase...please explain how using a trail camera is not? It's just a tool like everything else.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Those other technologically evolved devices don't remain indefinitely hanging in a tree deep in the forest you thought was wild and still pristinely void of technological plastic and metal electronic gear.

 

[BrentD]

But WHY is trail camera technology so much worse than other technology? There have been technological advances in every single thing we use in the woods. why is that technology ok but cameras are not? That makes no sense. If a hunter can use a fuel powered vehicle, wear ultra realistic printed carbon infused camo clothing, use high powered optics, sitting on top of the most technologically advanced center fire rifle ever produced, use a computer and apps to study maps and property boundaries from thousands of miles away, and that be considered fair chase...please explain how using a trail camera is not? It's just a tool like everything else.

How are trail cameras unlike Smartwool socks? Heck I don't know.

How are trail cameras unlike remotely operated drones? How are they unlike remotely fired rifles for that matter.

An atlatl was a technological advancement - for that matter so was a club.


But what the pro-technologists never want to do is draw a line in the sand ANYWHERE and say enough is enough?!?!?!?

I see no willingness to put on the brakes.

Booner, how many big game animals did you kill last year? How many will you kill this year?

 

[boonerville]

How are trail cameras unlike Smartwool socks? Heck I don't know.

How are trail cameras unlike remotely operated drones? How are they unlike remotely fired rifles for that matter.

An atlatl was a technological advancement - for that matter so was a club.


But what the pro-technologists never want to do is draw a line in the sand ANYWHERE and say enough is enough?!?!?!?

I see no willingness to put on the brakes.

Booner, how many big game animals did you kill last year? How many will you kill this year?

Last year I killed 4 deer. Who knows how many I will kill this year. Hopefully 3 antelope and at least 3 deer. But that's the plan every year. In 2016 I only killed one.

 

[BrentD]

You must be feeding a lot of people to consume that much venison. Good luck.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Last year I killed 4 deer.

How many were you able to pattern with your cams?

It's just a tool like everything else.

 

[boonerville]

You must be feeding a lot of people to consume that much venison. Good luck.

My wife and I have eaten exclusively wild game for the last 9 years, and we also supply a few people from church that need it. Beef actually tastes funny to me now Ive been doing it so long lol

 

[BrentD]

I eat only game meat but there is no way I can and my wife can consume that many animals per year, not to mention the birds and small game. Personally, I don't like killing things just to give away.

 

[boonerville]

How many were you able to pattern with your cams?

See that's what is amazing about animals. Of the 4 deer last year, 2 of them I did pattern with cameras. But what is interesting to me, is that the 4th one I killed during muzzleloader season, was on a 400 acre property in Iowa that I have had multiple cameras on year round for the last three years...and I had never laid eyes on, and never gotten a picture of that buck until 30 seconds before I shot him. I thought I knew about every deer in the area, but that buck was a complete surprise.

 

[LCH]

I eat only game meat but there is no way I can and my wife can consume that many animals per year, not to mention the birds and small game. Personally, I don't like killing things just to give away.

Of course it depends a lot on what animal it is. One cow elk gives as much meat as 4 average-sized doe whitetails in a lot of areas. Yet there are many people here that kill multiple elk, deer , pronghorn, bears, etc. every year. Is that wrong, assuming responsible management of the resource and all of the meat is consumed? In any case, I don't see it's relevance to trail cameras.

 

[wa_archer]

I would fully support ban on camera use, during season. Once season opens take them down, rest of year have at it.

 

[Bullshot]

Cameras strewn about on public land should be collected as litter and disposed of. They went from a gee whiz kinda fun thing to an absolute annoyance and are abused as an unethical tool. Enough of the "hit list" mentality. Patterning an animal used to mean scouting and hunting and woodmanship and a little bit of nature's mystery. People who need this should stay at home and just play video games. If they bristle at that and feel they are not in fact cheating, perhaps they should reflect on why then get so mad if it does not give you a significant advantage over the animal and other hunters that they are so loathe to give up. If its just about seeing pictures of animals, try this.. Google. Elk. Images. There, fixed it for ya's.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Cameras strewn about on public land should be collected as litter and disposed of. They went from a gee whiz kinda fun thing to an absolute annoyance and are abused as an unethical tool. Enough of the "hit list" mentality. Patterning an animal used to mean scouting and hunting and woodmanship and a little bit of nature's mystery. People who need this should stay at home and just play video games. If they bristle at that and feel they are not in fact cheating, perhaps they should reflect on why then get so mad if it does not give you a significant advantage over the animal and other hunters that they are so loathe to give up. If its just about seeing pictures of animals, try this.. Google. Elk. Images. There, fixed it for ya's.

'Good points. I'm also opposed to leaving any plastic gear in the woods unattended, especially electronic devices.

 

[Gr8bawana]

Cameras strewn about on public land should be collected as litter and disposed of. They went from a gee whiz kinda fun thing to an absolute annoyance and are abused as an unethical tool. Enough of the "hit list" mentality. Patterning an animal used to mean scouting and hunting and woodmanship and a little bit of nature's mystery. People who need this should stay at home and just play video games. If they bristle at that and feel they are not in fact cheating, perhaps they should reflect on why then get so mad if it does not give you a significant advantage over the animal and other hunters that they are so loathe to give up. If its just about seeing pictures of animals, try this.. Google. Elk. Images. There, fixed it for ya's.

Just wait until some clown figures out how to mount a loaded crossbow with the camera and and remotely shoot the animal of their liking when it steps in front of the camera.