Pronghorn bucks - Young and big

[1_pointer]

I think it would be possible to select for smaller bucks, but right now I don't think there are enough selective hunters out there to have an effect. The vast majority of tags are filled in the first 2-3 days of the season, on average 12-14" bucks. Dominant bucks are probably the ones getting picked off...the ones that are highly visible, running all over hell, getting themselves in trouble. Subordinate bucks are likely by themselves and less visible.

Then again, really big bucks are few and far between (thinking WY...not NM or AZ). Maybe it wouldn't take many selective hunters to have an effect.....

Not to disagree too much, but it could be those 12-14"ers are still short on age (ie below that stated in the OP) to really express themselves.

IIRC, this is exactly why there are herds of elephants that are showing a high propensity for being tuskless. Tusks got 'em shot for years.

I find the 'mind bender' part of this that goes against what we all "know" regarding large animals to be pretty cool.

 

[BuzzH]

I think Oak has a pretty valid point...if a 15 inch 2.5 year old buck is acting subordinate, its logical to assume that the 12-14 inchers that are also 2.5 years old are also going to be subordinate (generally speaking). I agree with his point that the more visible bucks in the bigger herds are going to take a pounding.

I appears to me with antelope, that age, rather than size of the horns, is what seems to drive dominance (again generally).

Most hunters dont go search out small groups of antelope or even a particular antelope. Most seem to shoot the first one that gives them a decent opportunity...in other words pretty random harvest. They also tend to seek out the herds rather than spend time searching through small herds and lone antelope.

Also, I dont know that trophy hunting would have that much negative impact, mainly because antelope are so darn hard to judge. I think most units in Wyoming have a B&C antelope or two runnning around them, its just that some may be passed over by hunters to knowing they would score as well as they do.

I would be willing to bet that 95% of hunters would kill a 16 inch buck with average mass and prongs...long before they would shoot a 14.5 inch antelope with lots of mass and good prongs standing right next to it. I rarely hear an antelope story from most antelope hunters stating anything other than, "I shot a __________inch antelope." Never a mention of prong length or mass....which is the most important to an antelope scoring well.

I think theres enough antelope and enough distribution within the annual harvest to maintain genetics, including genetics for B&C sized antelope.

 

[1_pointer]

I agree. I think were there is the most potential for impact are on trophy units. That'd be about the only time I see enough folks holding out for a bigger horned buck to even having a chance of an effect.

 

[DHaffner]

If the rut is in mid to late sept and hunting season is in late sept to oct most of your dominant bucks should get atleast a few pokes in before they hit the ground...

Also i'm no expert but all that running dominant bucks do to protect a harem could result in a loss of an inch or two the following year, pehaps 2 year olds are having more growth because they were in better shape going into winter/spring?

As far as the big mule deeer not breeding and passing on their genes, there are all sorts of different variations from lack of testerone to other genetic malladies from cactus bucks to unagressive males, but a few of the studies I've read about deer breeding conclude that most males do a small amount of breeding even spikes, rather than one or two dominate bucks breeding 90% of the does because they are dominate. It is hard for a buck in lock down with a hot doe to breed the other hot doe that is half a mile away, when all the females come into heat together in a spread out population there is alot of opportunity even for subodinate males...

 

[cadman59501]

With regard to mule deer when I shot my buck this year he appeared to be the dominant buck running all the smaller bucks off from the Havre, however after the shot he was definately not the biggest buck of the group

 

[npaden]

Also i'm no expert but all that running dominant bucks do to protect a harem could result in a loss of an inch or two the following year, pehaps 2 year olds are having more growth because they were in better shape going into winter/spring?

This seems to be a reasonable hypothesis. Impossible to test it but it makes some sense.

My gut feel it that antelope just mature early and are going to maintain horn size for most of their adult life. The 2 1/2 buck that is a 80"er will probably be an 80"er at 3 1/2 and then at 4 1/2, etc. Just because he was an 80"er when he was shot at 4 1/2 doesn't mean that he wasn't an 80"er in previous years. Most anectodal information supports this as a particularly cagy antelope may be seen for several years in a row with about the same size horns.

Just a thought.

 

[Khunter]

pronghorn have to mature quickly since they get killed en masse in the first couple days of a season

 

[mconway951]

this is a really interesting read thanks guys for all your posts on this one