Project 2025 and Conservation

[Ben Lamb]

Get the joke, but guessing if they hadn't have gotten paid they wouldn't have been there. I've worked with lots of Union guys (in an earlier life), and hunted with a lot more, and I think the old days of bosses scamming may be over. They seem to retire pretty comfy.

Only in jest, my friend.

It is always a mistake to think any group is a singular block of thought. Unions have a lot of R & D participation.

Unfortunately, Project 2025 wants to get rid of the power that labor unions provide to workers in favor of only the management having power. The AFL-CIO isn't biting: https://aflcio.org/press/releases/a...er-responds-trump-vice-president-announcement

 

[MTGomer]

The bad thing about republicans, is that once elected, they don’t do the things they pledge to while running for election.

The good thing(in this case) about republicans, is that once elected, they don’t do the things they pledge to while running for election.

 

[rogerthat]

The bad thing about republicans, is that once elected, they don’t do the things they pledge to while running for election.

The good thing(in this case) about republicans, is that once elected, they don’t do the things they pledge to while running for election.

Is that really a Republican thing?

 

[MTGomer]

Is that really a Republican thing?

Seems to be

“We’re gonna secure the border, cut taxes, cut spending, eliminate xyz agency and end the forever wars”

 

[rogerthat]

Seems to be

“We’re gonna secure the border, cut taxes, cut spending, eliminate xyz agency and end the forever wars”

Well you definitely got me on the cut spending part

 

[ismith]

We have to pass the Project 2025 to see what’s in it……….

 

[Salmonchaser]

Seems more likely for everyone to have a construction project on their land. Sorry for the negativity but that’s just what I’m seeing.

The land was just an empty hay pasture when the house was built. Going on thirty years. There is so much construction in the west. Montana is getting what happened to Oregon 30 years ago. We continue planting trees so we would not see the neighbors we knew were coming. We’ve deer, birds of all kinds, a wolf one Christmas Morning, we had elk but the neighbors that we knew were coming have created too many fences, foxes, Raccoons, porcupines and skunks. Also have grand babies to the east and west. Instead of pushing the kids out we knocked off five acres on either side of where they grew up. Slightly larger version of what they are doing in Eugene. I think every little bit can help.

 

[David58]

there’s so much a city dweller could do on their lot. Butterfly garden, organic natural lawn, composting, rain caches, keeping their cat inside and on and on.

Yes, but in the OP's state, rain catches are technically illegal, since all of the water belongs to the citizens of the state. Selectively prosecuted (usually folks building ponds on ranch or farm land), but overreach from the other side, nonetheless.
IMHO, too much inertia for 2025 to have large impact on hunting and fishing, conservation, as there are a lot of conservative hunters and fishermen. We have to be vigilent, but either wing of the black bird wants to respond to the folks with $$$ in their fists.

 

[David58]

Sure can, I’m just saying that one of best things folks can do is help keep people out of otherwise undeveloped habitat.

Here in Eugene the city passed a zoning reform a year or two ago where now there are no single-family-only zonings. Land /home owners can build additional dwellings in their yards, increasing housing density without altering the city boundary. Getting the units built is slow going, but it’s at least forward looking. No reason you couldn’t have a butterfly garden as well, my neighbor has a wildflower garden and 2 additional units on their .2 acre lot.

This would be a different thread. My private property is no longer mine if I live in Eugene. This is why I will be in Idaho, not Oregon, in a few months. Oregon is a perfect example of visionary elites making sure we the little people are "guided" into doing the right thing. And to keep it on the hunting and conservation direction, just how are Oregon's elk and muley herds doing these days?

David
NM (formerly of Oregon)

 

[Bonasababy]

This would be a different thread. My private property is no longer mine if I live in Eugene. This is why I will be in Idaho, not Oregon, in a few months. Oregon is a perfect example of visionary elites making sure we the little people are "guided" into doing the right thing. And to keep it on the hunting and conservation direction, just how are Oregon's elk and muley herds doing these days?

David
NM (formerly of Oregon)

Gotta assume the neat places I knew when I worked there years ago aren't quite like Eugene.

Sisters. Sweet Home. Tilamook. John Day.

Like to get back there after retirement.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Gotta assume the neat places I knew when I worked there years ago aren't quite like Eugene.

Sisters. Sweet Home. Tilamook. John Day.

Like to get back there after retirement.

Urban infill & restoration is a vital part of the housing issue, as opposed to newer exurban developments. Infrastructure is already in place (sewer, water, electric) and there are tons of opportunities for cheap land/houses that need work, but are still worth saving. There's some cool stuff like that happening in Detroit. MT did some pretty groundbreaking legislation on this last session as well to encourage development of existing buildings in cities rather than go for more cookie-cutter subdivisions (which is gonna happen anyway).

The current commercial real estate market could prove to be a unique opportunity for developing commercial buildings into residential as well.

There are many, many things that can be done to limit the impact humans have on the environment. All of them will need government assistance due to cost of materials and labor to make any new development actually affordable.

 

[Straight Arrow]

There are many, many things that can be done to limit the impact humans have on the environment. All of them will need government assistance due to cost of materials and labor to make any new development actually affordable.

'Shudder to say it, but it seems government mandates are needed to protect and conserve wildlife habitat.
Thirty years ago Fred King of Montana FWP had a dog & pony presentation with color photos showing how development in the wrong places across Montana (mostly rural subdivisions) was the single largest factor adversely impacting wildlife habitat. Fred presented and spoke to anyone who would listen; he was way ahead of the times, but sadly did not gather enough support and influence. Now the development is exponentially worse with regard to habitat and wildlands.

 

[Ben Lamb]

'Shudder to say it, but it seems government mandates are needed to protect and conserve wildlife habitat.
Thirty years ago Fred King of Montana FWP had a dog & pony presentation with color photos showing how development in the wrong places across Montana (mostly rural subdivisions) was the single largest factor adversely impacting wildlife habitat. Fred presented and spoke to anyone who would listen; he was way head of the times, but sadly did not gather enough support and influence. Now the development is exponentially worse with regard to habitat and wildlands.

This is 100% correct, but so is the point made by @David58 when people choose single family homes on 1 acre lots of urban infill, etc. A lot of times, zoning regulations seeking to preserve some of the green space end up causing more problems than they solve. Bozeman is a good example of the elites pushing back against clustered development: https://montanafreepress.org/2023/1...llenge-against-pro-construction-housing-laws/

The path forward is somewhere in the middle, like all things.

 

[Gerald Martin]

This is 100% correct, but so is the point made by @David58 when people choose single family homes on 1 acre lots of urban infill, etc. A lot of times, zoning regulations seeking to preserve some of the green space end up causing more problems than they solve. Bozeman is a good example of the elites pushing back against clustered development: https://montanafreepress.org/2023/1...llenge-against-pro-construction-housing-laws/

The path forward is somewhere in the middle, like all things.

We got our space, now no one else can move in beside me. I can somewhat empathize since I have a large lot in a small subdivision that is bounded by agricultural land on two sides. I hope it stays that way for a long time, but I have always known that there’ll eventually be housing there too.

As someone in the construction industry and also concerned about urban sprawl, I’m becoming more and more a proponent of higher density housing in proximity to urban areas. Folks are going to build somewhere in Bozeman. If they can’t develop land inside the city limits then they are going to sprawl further into the county and build on larger tracts.

It makes far more sense to build in the gaps than spread out. The idea that incoming housing hurts property values is baloney. True, an older home with undeveloped land around it might command a higher price than one with housing close by, but both have increased dramatically in value over the past few years due to the demand than is causing higher density housing to be developed.

 

[Straight Arrow]

A glimmer of hope was seen recently when Gallatin County denied a rural subdivision with Wilson Creek running through it. First time in ages the Commission cited county growth policies regarding wildlife corridors and wildlife habitat, as well as others, and determined the development to be inappropriate.
Gallatin County is in the process of putting together countywide zoning ... so we'll have to monitor and see what that looks like.

 

[SAJ-99]

News from WY

Sublette County rejects billionaire Ricketts’ request to scrub wildlife rules, slowing upscale resort - WyoFile

Bondurant community shows up again to fight a request that would hasten completion of development that’s broken ground along Upper Hoback Road.

wyofile.com

a month later...
I am away suspicious of the claims to build "affordable housing".

State considers limiting local authority over housing, zoning and development - WyoFile

As Legislature’s Regulatory Reduction Task Force eyes stripping some town and county control, two mayors call for more tools, not fewer.

wyofile.com

 

[whatnot]

It's amazing g to me the hand wringing that is being pushed.

EVERY think tank writes white papers. 2025 is yet another in a long list of them.

The reality is, the single biggest danger to public lands, is "renewable energy". The R was villanized(deservedly so) for their support of O&G, at the detriment of public. But now the D has found their own way to capitalize on public, and because it's cloaked in "good for climate", there is almost no push back.

"Clean" energy is on the search for copper, and lithium. And we all know where this goes. The R still profiting off O&G, and the D seeing hundreds of millions of acres of solar farms, windmills, and the mining that supports it.

Add to that our selfish pursuit of trophy hunting and its corporate support industry which seeks, as Buzz pointed out, privatization of everything, and it looks dire.

 

[88man]

It's amazing g to me the hand wringing that is being pushed.

EVERY think tank writes white papers. 2025 is yet another in a long list of them.

The reality is, the single biggest danger to public lands, is "renewable energy". The R was villanized(deservedly so) for their support of O&G, at the detriment of public. But now the D has found their own way to capitalize on public, and because it's cloaked in "good for climate", there is almost no push back.

"Clean" energy is on the search for copper, and lithium. And we all know where this goes. The R still profiting off O&G, and the D seeing hundreds of millions of acres of solar farms, windmills, and the mining that supports it.

Add to that our selfish pursuit of trophy hunting and its corporate support industry which seeks, as Buzz pointed out, privatization of everything, and it looks dire.

"The reality is, the single biggest danger to public lands, is "renewable energy". The R was villanized(deservedly so) for their support of O&G, at the detriment of public. But now the D has found their own way to capitalize on public, and because it's cloaked in "good for climate", there is almost no push back."

Lots of folks on here know this is true but the cognitive dissonance took over in their brains.

 

[Bonasababy]

"The reality is, the single biggest danger to public lands, is "renewable energy". The R was villanized(deservedly so) for their support of O&G, at the detriment of public. But now the D has found their own way to capitalize on public, and because it's cloaked in "good for climate", there is almost no push back."

Lots of folks on here know this is true but the cognitive dissonance took over in their brains.

Most of the developed world--who is well ahead of us--is shaking their heads at these views.

We do have issues with regulations--lack of them, lack of enforcement of what we have--and with many folks turning a blind eye to the need for siting and other regulations to exciting new technology.

Someday history will look at this like they did people who didn't want the automobile to take over from the horse.

 

[Ben Lamb]

"The reality is, the single biggest danger to public lands, is "renewable energy". The R was villanized(deservedly so) for their support of O&G, at the detriment of public. But now the D has found their own way to capitalize on public, and because it's cloaked in "good for climate", there is almost no push back."

Lots of folks on here know this is true but the cognitive dissonance took over in their brains.