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Privatization kills both Resident and Nonresident DIY hunting opportunity

I am no expert on Eplus, but unless New Mexico and her wildlife are just levels above everyone else, all these arguments of incentivization kind of fall flat to me given their neighbor, Arizona, doesn't privatize and they seem to be doing fine. The arguments I hear in defense of ePlus sound very similar to the arguments for privatization in MT, which would hose the working man in favor of the landowner.

Basically, it's all anecdote, which isn't nothing, but I have a feeling if NM abandoned privatization and went to a tag allocation similar to AZ, wildlife populations would not plummet. Habitats would mostly retain. I suspect the current situation is chiefly windfall for landowners, not an incentivization to meaningfully do things they wouldn't do otherwise. I could be wrong.
Because elk have value, and landowners are incentizived to do projects to support them. Elk have value worth tolerating them, of course there are more elk today.

Sure there would be elk still without landowner incentives but less elk. Their ranges in NM would be more limited and less tags would exist.

So many people are so ate up with a landowner making a little money off an elk and so mislead by these organizations making you think opportunities have been stolen, that you can't see that the reality is more opportunities actually exist. Especially in a place like NM with very limited water resources for them.

Many many landowners are doing this just because the program for elk creates valu enough that it's worth doing!

And that's the point.
I know two guys locally who bought 20 acre tracts in NM strictly for landowner vouchers. They don't get a tag every year but they get one a lot more frequent then you would in the draw. Thank God they have 20 acre tracts with cabins on them. Those elk probably wouldn't make it without those cabins there for the elk.
There are two options here.

One, they are in the primary zone and that land is in the highly managed area and has some resources making it score high enough to achieve EPLUS SCR status.....which is very rare on 20 acres.

Or two they are in secondary zone. And can buy OTC Ranch only tags. No unitwide exists in secondary zone.

Most small ranches like this have been eliminated from then SCR list. Go buy 20 acres and see if you get a tag.....most likely you won't. The EPLUS just eliminated 700+ ranches a couple years ago because they didn't benefit enough.

Now go buy 20 acres - half treed, half forage and drop a $50k water well on it that provides year round water. Maybe you have a chance at a tag.

That water however, just improved the habitat, to get a property eligible.

When a lot of landowners are doing these things it's great for the herds across the broader landscape. Expanding ranges and numbers.
 
Because elk have value, and landowners are incentizived to do projects to support them. Elk have value worth tolerating them, of course there are more elk today.

Sure there would be elk still without landowner incentives but less elk. Their ranges in NM would be more limited and less tags would exist.

So many people are so ate up with a landowner making a little money off an elk and so misled by these organizations making you think opportunities have been stolen, that you can't see that the reality is more opportunities actually exist. Especially in a place like NM with very limited water resources for them.

Many many landowners are doing this just because the program for elk creates value enough that it's worth doing!

And that's the point.
Again, there are hundreds of ranches in AZ that are not open to the public land hunter. Yet somehow there are hunters there every year.
Do folks lease these ranches and just hope they draw the ever so easy to draw AZ elk tag ?
How does that work out for you MT hunters? I have no idea. Have not hunted MT since 1978. It was OTC tags I used.

Elk numbers in NM are not plummeting. They are growing.
Everything else is plummeting tho.

I understand the arguments, but am not so sure. It would be interesting to see hard stats. Is Arizona a much worse place than they would be otherwise because they have no landowner vouchers? Because opportunity at their elk is far more democratized?

Another way I view it. As someone who values the ability of the working man to hunt as a highest virtue, I wonder if even we grant that NM has markedly more elk than it would otherwise due to privatization, is it true the beneficiaries of that wildlife trust are benefitting commensurate to that increase? @abqbw 's statistics are very convincing that that is in fact not the case at all.

Not directed at you @hank4elk . I know you are a good landowner and neighbor. Montana's problem is not lack of privatization. It's something else entirely.
 
As someone who values the ability of the working man to hunt

I’m a working man who loves to hunt- as a NR to all western states, UW landowner tags are one of the best ways for me to actually make this happen.

Montana would be served well to go the NM route on this one, both their state financial situation and their private/public land game problems would be improved.
 
I’m a working man who loves to hunt- as a NR to all western states, UW landowner tags are one of the best ways for me to actually make this happen.

Montana would be served well to go the NM route on this one, both their state financial situation and their private/public land game problems would be improved.

When I look at the amount and proportion of New Mexican's elk being converted to tags going to nonresidents in NM vs the amount in other places, your claim seems quite dubious to me.
 
I’m a working man who loves to hunt- as a NR to all western states, UW landowner tags are one of the best ways for me to actually make this happen.

Montana would be served well to go the NM route on this one, both their state financial situation and their private/public land game problems would be improved.
Agreed.

And as a working man, in NM....you most likely could actually afford to buy land there still and do projects like EPLUS recognizes for the elk program.

It incentivization guys like us to do thing to come into the State and program, which helps expand and improve elk habitat and in exchange, we could hunt those elk.
 
When I look at the amount and proportion of New Mexican's elk being converted to tags going to nonresidents in NM vs the amount in other places, your claim seems quite dubious to me.

First off, the authorization for the tag was in the hands of a New Mexican land owner most likely. A huge percentage of the landowner list is comprised of New Mexico addresses.

Then they sold it....a New Mexico resident could buy it just the same as a non-resident. It's equal opportunity at that point.

But in the event it is sold to a non-resident, the G&F is getting 10x the revenue for it too. Which goes back into wildlife.
 
Do you buy one for NM every year? Or I guess I should say on a regular basis?

No- but certainly won’t be afraid to in the future. Not trolling by saying this, but NM wasn’t really high on my list before the OP started this thread.

Aside from a bit longer drive (not really that much more to where it’s an issue) their system sounds pretty sweet.
 
I’m a working man who loves to hunt- as a NR to all western states, UW landowner tags are one of the best ways for me to actually make this happen.

Montana would be served well to go the NM route on this one, both their state financial situation and their private/public land game problems would be improved.
Lots of people work as much as you and can’t afford to hunt out of state. Just because you can afford them doesn’t mean everyone else can. Is that what you want hunting to be? Who has the biggest piggy bank gets to hunt? I don’t.
 
No- but certainly won’t be afraid to in the future. Not trolling by saying this, but NM wasn’t really high on my list before the OP started this thread.

Aside from a bit longer drive (not that much to where it’s an issue) their system sounds pretty sweet.

For elk, it should be on your list!....because the program works so well, it's something of the best elk hunting you will ever have the opportunity to do!

Populations are booming, primary zones are expanding. I'd find a way every year, and New Mexico provides several options for those that want to!
 
No- but certainly won’t be afraid to in the future. Not trolling by saying this, but NM wasn’t really high on my list before the OP started this thread.

Aside from a bit longer drive (not really that much more to where it’s an issue) their system sounds pretty sweet.
Check em out, not exactly a working man's tag imo. If the few extra hours drive is keeping you from new Mexico I don't think you'll like the price of the land owner voucher much.
 
Lots of people work as much as you and can’t afford to hunt out of state. Just because you can afford them doesn’t mean everyone else can. Is that what you want hunting to be? Who has the biggest piggy bank gets to hunt? I don’t.

Lose $7m in revenue to G&F from non-resident tag sales and watch resident costs increase. Is that what you want?

If your elk tags increase by $100 to residents, how many residents now can't afford to do it any more?

Non-residents tag sales keep your cost as residents down.
 

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