I give my tags away to folks that deserve it. From the no mola ranch. Rancho No Denero! LOL
Privatization kills both Resident and Nonresident DIY hunting opportunity
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rogerthat
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You do it right Hank. I don’t blame any landowners for seling them either.
These same "groups" want to increase funding by bringing in surplus $ from the state legislators.
Instead of NMG&F standing alone.
Without more influence from party color and FB influencers.
But hey.
My lic. and elk tag will cost me a gallon of milk and a dozen eggs.
Instead of NMG&F standing alone.
Without more influence from party color and FB influencers.
But hey.
My lic. and elk tag will cost me a gallon of milk and a dozen eggs.
bulldawg10
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New Mexico Unit Wide Tags do so much good that is overlooked. The landowner tags in general are built in a way to encourage landowners to enhance habitat, which can support more elk.
Unit wide tags in New Mexico aren't just unit wide for no reason. The ranches that get them HAVE to open to the public for elk hunting. That's an additional 600,000 acres of private land, available to the public. Those ranches typically are going to have solid resources to hunt too.
Now how much additional access do those private unitwide ranches open to otherwise limited or hard to access public? A ton.
This is a huge issue in the west and EPLUS is a good solution for it...and not just those that can afford to trespass, but every legal elk hunter in that unit. Again, a great reason its better than a trespass fee...it's private land already open to everyone!
Land owner tags, and being transferable, create two additional options to hunt elk in New Mexico. You can draw, buy land that is eligible for tags, improve land, or buy a tag. Why give up two options to acquire a tag? Going to only a draw is silly...and it eliminates two options people have to hunt. Give me more option in life, not less..
The land owner program (EPLUS) in New Mexico also has a habitat incentive program. It awards land owners for improving elk habitat further. Add water, remove fences, reduce or eliminate cattle, etc. Water is scarce in a lot of NM. It's not like CO, MT, etc in that regard. This is critical and landowners do the heavy lifting here.
I've personally looked at buying properties to get qualified to participate in the landowner program by improving the properties to the level EPLUS will allow for the property to participate in the land owner draw. The cost of the water well and drinker system to do so, $40k+, also remove cattle as competition for grazing...
If I do that as a land owner in New Mexico, you can't tell me I shouldn't be awarded a tag. I would have done considerably more tangible good for elk than the vast majority of the draw participates would ever think about doing. It's not even close to a King's deer scenario
I'd be hunting elk that use my land, and if I go unit wide, so could anyone else in any other of the other season too. It's a benefit to all hunters.
Unit wide tags in New Mexico aren't just unit wide for no reason. The ranches that get them HAVE to open to the public for elk hunting. That's an additional 600,000 acres of private land, available to the public. Those ranches typically are going to have solid resources to hunt too.
Now how much additional access do those private unitwide ranches open to otherwise limited or hard to access public? A ton.
This is a huge issue in the west and EPLUS is a good solution for it...and not just those that can afford to trespass, but every legal elk hunter in that unit. Again, a great reason its better than a trespass fee...it's private land already open to everyone!
Land owner tags, and being transferable, create two additional options to hunt elk in New Mexico. You can draw, buy land that is eligible for tags, improve land, or buy a tag. Why give up two options to acquire a tag? Going to only a draw is silly...and it eliminates two options people have to hunt. Give me more option in life, not less..
The land owner program (EPLUS) in New Mexico also has a habitat incentive program. It awards land owners for improving elk habitat further. Add water, remove fences, reduce or eliminate cattle, etc. Water is scarce in a lot of NM. It's not like CO, MT, etc in that regard. This is critical and landowners do the heavy lifting here.
I've personally looked at buying properties to get qualified to participate in the landowner program by improving the properties to the level EPLUS will allow for the property to participate in the land owner draw. The cost of the water well and drinker system to do so, $40k+, also remove cattle as competition for grazing...
If I do that as a land owner in New Mexico, you can't tell me I shouldn't be awarded a tag. I would have done considerably more tangible good for elk than the vast majority of the draw participates would ever think about doing. It's not even close to a King's deer scenario
I'd be hunting elk that use my land, and if I go unit wide, so could anyone else in any other of the other season too. It's a benefit to all hunters.
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Nick87
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Be sure of it. Land ownership has nothing to do with wildlife. Landowner tags are the exact the definition of the "kings deer". Regardless of who is buying them diy NR or not.
bulldawg10
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I'm honestly surprised there isn't instead a push for more ranches to go unit wide. That would continue to open more private ground, which also improves access to public ground and in some cases, potentially opens land locked public lands.
Here is a suggestion:
BHA and NMWF should be buying New Mexico land, opening it to unit wide access and then running their own draw on the tags they want to keep out of landowners hands.
They would achieve three or four things: Create more open access to private hunting land, more access to public land and more tags to draw for the public. Also getting a taste of the challenges landowners face at the same time.
This also would still allow landowner to participate in enhancement programs, and provide literally anyone the opportunity to acquire tags through land ownership, land improvements or straight up buying a tag.
Again, don't ever push to eliminate options, find a way to expand options. My suggestion does that.
This would be a true benefit to the public
Here is a suggestion:
BHA and NMWF should be buying New Mexico land, opening it to unit wide access and then running their own draw on the tags they want to keep out of landowners hands.
They would achieve three or four things: Create more open access to private hunting land, more access to public land and more tags to draw for the public. Also getting a taste of the challenges landowners face at the same time.
This also would still allow landowner to participate in enhancement programs, and provide literally anyone the opportunity to acquire tags through land ownership, land improvements or straight up buying a tag.
Again, don't ever push to eliminate options, find a way to expand options. My suggestion does that.
This would be a true benefit to the public
Nick87
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Yes I think i could.
bulldawg10
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Then what incentive do landowners have to provide enhancements for elk? They are your partner in the grand scheme of healthy herds that are growing or sustainable.
In New Mexico, the landowner tags aren't pulled from the draw pull to start with. It's an independent system that evaluates the habitat on private lands.
Eliminating this system would eliminate habitat, lower populations and ultimately reduce tags available in general.
Nick87
Well-known member
Are transferable landowner tags your only incentive to enhance habitat for wildlife?
bulldawg10
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You know any reasons someone is gonna put in a $40k+ water well in the middle of nowhere while also eliminating cattle?
The elk have value, that value benefits the guy sitting on the sideline just drawing a tag, whether you like it or not.
The transferable piece helps fund the improvements in my example. Without the value of the elk, the improvements don't happen, then the elk (and all wildlife) overall don't benefit.
bayoublaster7527
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Most important to the future of western hunting and wildlife conservation, does big game license privatization help the beleaguered YouTube instafamous celebrity hunter/influencer? They need these tags to create content to sell that sick merch and feed their families…..
rogerthat
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$40k doesn’t seem all that steep to me to have some awesome hunting for life. How much do the unit wide bull tags get sold for? $5-10k? How many do the landowners get per year? Seems like the roi would be solid.
bulldawg10
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Potentially could be, if you have $40k-$50k sitting around, and unknown amount of time to get the project complete and then Potentially close to a 1.5 years to see any return at all.
But..
Generally one tag, as a small contributing ranch (SCR), there is no guarantee of a draw also. Some places in NM an SCR may draw once every few years, others nearly every year. Some places the tag is worth $2k-$3k, other areas $6k to $10k is possible. If I'm using that tag to hunt, I'm not making that money either.
You also are risking doing this improvement for elk knowing as a landowner recieving a tag for doing your part, the program is being threatened. May not be for life....hopefully it is.
I hate the "rich" or "wealthy" land owner moniker...in NM, that's often very far from the case.
You very well could draw a cow too. So the return could be a long time (assuming selling the tag was your prerogative), or fairly reasonable depending on how lucky you are in the landowner draw over a number of year....in the right units.
The incentive program can produce extra tags, but only for three years. Yet another well thought out design.
If I put that water well in for $47k, I get a 3 year incentive if I enter the Habitat incentive program. But after 3 years, the elk still have the water, the landowner no longer has the bonus tag.
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belshawelk
Well-known member
So nobody should own private land and get rewarded for spending their own money to help wildlife?
Before you answer many many private landowners are the very reason elk and deer can survive. The government sure won’t take care of them.
Before you answer many many private landowners are the very reason elk and deer can survive. The government sure won’t take care of them.
No. My land is for wildlife.
But it has helped provide an incentive to off set the taxes I now pay on the land for one thing. I have never done it for a return on investment. There has been no return, except I don't trust many outfitters anymore.
But seeing a local kid fill their families freezer has been one.
Another is seeing a Vet get a chance to fill a tag.
I gave 2 tags to a local family dealing with cancer in the family last year.
Nick87
Well-known member
Well they could do it for themselves with a non transferable tag? It's good that landowners are doing these projects but the transferable part is just another way we are commercializing wildlife.
David58
Well-known member
What???
Go down and hunt on Hank4elk's property without permission. Try traipsing up to Chama Land and Cattle Co with your Unit tag, and walk on there to hunt just because they got landowner tags. Try and convince landowners that they are now required to open up their property in exchange for tags and get laughed off the property, with an "escort" to show you the way.
I don't have issue with landowners following the law and selling their tags. I have issues with the laws and regulations that allow it.
I'd have no problem with getting my elk danged near every year if I could hunt on the property along the river - alfalfa and good water. The elk are thick there - but on private land. Private land expansive enough to represent many tags through EPlus, and no, the owner does not HAVE TO allow folks to hunt on his or her property.
GMAB
David
NM
Well ya but you can only use 1 tag per year, and I somehow draw tags.
The voucher is transferred to another person and they use it.
Are the groups oppossed to E-plus commercializing the hunting experience?
Does BHA not run get togethers at breweries to enlarge their base?
NMWF is building members by blaming ranchers for lack of green on the notice in residents e-mails?
Does HT have ads to help run the site?
Nick87
Well-known member
What those groups appose or support on this subject I'm not sure of Hank. All I know is that transferable landowner tags for the most part commercialize wildlife by tags only making there way into the hands of who has the most coin. What you are doing by with vets and local families is awesome. But unfortunately I think your in the sheer minority? Hopefully not. Are there many other landowners by you that do the same?
David58
Well-known member
You sound like an attorney for landowners.
No, the tags are not eliminated from the "draw". But doggoned near half of all tags go to landowners. That is part of the bullshit story NMGF sings that some huge percent of tags go to residents. Over 75% of the landowner tags go to nonresidents.
And tell me again that I can just go buy one of those tags and hunt with an outfitter. There are outfitters near me that will NOT guide locals, no matter what we want to pay, for fear we spill the location of honey holes.
...eliminate habitat, lower populations and ultimately reduce tags available in general...
I ain't eatin' that sammich, no matter how good you tell me it tastes.
David
NM
