Population Growth and Hunting in Rocky Mountain States

[Nameless Range]

I remember the way so many places made me feel when they were different and I loved them. I remember the first time I explored many of them, some with people and canines now gone. I remember being overcome with joy at their existence and my ability to be there on them. I remember hard days when knowing these places were out there was a salve for the soul, and being filled with gratitude at that fact. I remember telling myself to lock certain memories associated with them in, because the people I was having them with won't be here forever. I've always had that attribute, and remember having similar conversations with myself when I was a child: "Remember This". I've said it before- we love chunks of earth similarly to how we love people and dogs, and thus it follows that our mourning of their demise is also similar.

I'm a cheesy guy, and dramatic about first world problems, and I'm also a sucker for my own shifting baseline syndrome. But, my home's transition from rural to bedroom community between 1990 and today has been jarring. The population has doubled, and the folks who moved here, myself included, didn't build small houses, and didn't move here just to sit in them. I'm only 38. Just a hell of a thing.

Alright,thanks for humoring me.

 

[Ben Lamb]

If I've said it once, I've said it 4 million times: Thanos wasn't the villain in the Avengers movies.

 

[Mtnhunter1]

It really doesn't stop. A thousandish acre public parcel, where my brother, father, and I have taken numerous deer and elk - last year on one side was developed. The folks who built there walk in out their back yards, or just look out their back windows, and take the elk and deer when they see them. This year, now on the other side, another development planned. The land is still accessible, but the experience is gone. As development continues, one thing to think about aside from loss of habitat and more people, is more people are everyday on the edge of opportunity - I see more and more animals harvested by people whose yards provide the gateway to where they can pull the trigger. Good for them, but it no doubt is an extra pressure on what is.

When I was young, I'd often hear the statements from those who'd been around longer than me: "I remember when this was the edge of town", or " I used hunt that." I always took it as a matter of fact, or something to consider, but really I now see those statements as lamentations.

I write this, and resurrect this thread for nothing more than an outlet for my own angst. I feel it every day- on social media, on realtor.com, on the landscape I used to think I knew. It really does give one heartache, and I want to run from it, and actually think I could and it largely wouldn't catch me before my life ended - fall in love with somewhere less likely to be erased in my lifetime. Of course there is still tons and tons of good out there, and that is where most of my focus lies, but it is hard to say goodbye to a chunk of earth in your neck of the woods. It's like breaking up with someone but continuing to have to see them every day.

So very, very true! Well stated!!!

 

[JEL]

It really doesn't stop. A thousandish acre public parcel, where my brother, father, and I have taken numerous deer and elk - last year on one side was developed. The folks who built there walk in out their back yards, or just look out their back windows, and take the elk and deer when they see them. This year, now on the other side, another development planned. The land is still accessible, but the experience is gone. As development continues, one thing to think about aside from loss of habitat and more people, is more people are everyday on the edge of opportunity - I see more and more animals harvested by people whose yards provide the gateway to where they can pull the trigger. Good for them, but it no doubt is an extra pressure on what is.

When I was young, I'd often hear the statements from those who'd been around longer than me: "I remember when this was the edge of town", or " I used hunt that." I always took it as a matter of fact, or something to consider, but really I now see those statements as lamentations.

I write this, and resurrect this thread for nothing more than an outlet for my own angst. I feel it every day- on social media, on realtor.com, on the landscape I used to think I knew. It really does give one heartache, and I want to run from it, and actually think I could and it largely wouldn't catch me before my life ended - fall in love with somewhere less likely to be erased in my lifetime. Of course there is still tons and tons of good out there, and that is where most of my focus lies, but it is hard to say goodbye to a chunk of earth in your neck of the woods. It's like breaking up with someone but continuing to have to see them every day.

If you're my age you have a lot to lament. I try not to long for the past because it is never coming back. Almost all the places I used to be in awe of when I was a kid (Flathead, Red Lodge, Bitterroot, Gallatin Valley) are now over developed, overused and no longer desirable places for me to want to even visit. I have always wondered why our Governor's and politicians always pushed growth and development so hard. Even now Gov G is campaigning for more people moving here. I hate it and am really glad I have my little place where no one else will ever want to go.

 

[Treeshark]

I have always wondered why our Governor's and politicians always pushed growth and development so hard.

$.

 

[Irrelevant]

"Growth for the sake of growth, is the ideology of the cancer cell."

In my simple brain it harkens to the economic growth model. America is based on growth and natural resource exploitation. "Move west, young man." We all demand more of every thing, homes, more land, more money, more kids. Everyone needs to own a home. Everyone needs a job. We need more tourism. More trade. More demand. We need to extract more. Develop more.

My family has seen our lives generally get better and easier every year with this growth based system. So on the one hand I shouldn't complain. But there are times, when I wish it was harder, we had something terrible happen, because that's really going to be the only way to slow/stop/reverse this pattern of growth.

Think on this, you will never experience a day with as much wild, open lands as today. Tomorrow there will be fractionally less, and the next day, and the next. You kids will certainly claim you were living in the good ole days. So enjoy today for what it is, because in the future you'll lament it's loss.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

If I've said it once, I've said it 4 million times: Thanos wasn't the villain in the Avengers movies.

If I've said it once I've said it 4 million times:

 

[elkduds]

"Growth for the sake of growth, is the ideology of the cancer cell."

In my simple brain it harkens to the economic growth model. America is based on growth and natural resource exploitation. "Move west, young man." We all demand more of every thing, homes, more land, more money, more kids. Everyone needs to own a home. Everyone needs a job. We need more tourism. More trade. More demand. We need to extract more. Develop more.

My family has seen our lives generally get better and easier every year with this growth based system. So on the one hand I shouldn't complain. But there are times, when I wish it was harder, we had something terrible happen, because that's really going to be the only way to slow/stop/reverse this pattern of growth.

Think on this, you will never experience a day with as much wild, open lands as today. Tomorrow there will be fractionally less, and the next day, and the next. You kids will certainly claim you were living in the good ole days. So enjoy today for what it is, because in the future you'll lament it's loss.

Government and industry collude to rob us of our public land heritage. Sometimes it is done in broad strokes, like the Republican platform to broadly sell public lands, or the checkerboard of public lands given to the railroads to encourage their expansion. More often it is insidious, as in not enforcing industry regulations on oil/gas development, and underfunding USFS/BLM.

There are 2 lines on the graph of public land use. One is the steadily declining amount of public land. The other is the constantly increasing use of these lands by booming populations equipped w technology to drive farther, navigate more accurately, even shoot at longer ranges. As tech expands our reach and impact, the canvas of our public land shrinks. We who value it must always be vigilant, elect and support legislators who share that value, and fight like hell to hold on to what little is left.

 

[Treeshark]

I’ve long felt that public lands are at the greatest risk when a state is financially underwater. Being a state isn’t free.

 

[Irrelevant]

Government and industry collude to rob us of our public land heritage. Sometimes it is done in broad strokes, like the Republican platform to broadly sell public lands, or the checkerboard of public lands given to the railroads to encourage their expansion. More often it is insidious, as in not enforcing industry regulations on oil/gas development, and underfunding USFS/BLM.

While this may be true, I would argue it is less critical than the impacts of simple and slow growth. The growth we all accept in our lives. The ones that allow use to live such luxurious lives. Even if we never lost another acre of public land, we still stand to lose so much as to make what remains seem like a minor sliver of once was. The Bob may still be the Bob. The Selway and the Church may remain relatively unphased over time. But all easily or even moderately accessible public lands will become only more overran as our growing population continues to seek the benefits on such lands. We take for granted the buffer of large undeveloped private lands. The changes we see are often not a loss of public but a loss of private.

Population growth, and the inherent economic growth that accompanies it, is the biggest threat we have.

 

[MTTW]

It really doesn't stop. A thousandish acre public parcel, where my brother, father, and I have taken numerous deer and elk - last year on one side was developed. The folks who built there walk in out their back yards, or just look out their back windows, and take the elk and deer when they see them. This year, now on the other side, another development planned. The land is still accessible, but the experience is gone. As development continues, one thing to think about aside from loss of habitat and more people, is more people are everyday on the edge of opportunity - I see more and more animals harvested by people whose yards provide the gateway to where they can pull the trigger. Good for them, but it no doubt is an extra pressure on what is.

When I was young, I'd often hear the statements from those who'd been around longer than me: "I remember when this was the edge of town", or " I used hunt that." I always took it as a matter of fact, or something to consider, but really I now see those statements as lamentations.

I write this, and resurrect this thread for nothing more than an outlet for my own angst. I feel it every day- on social media, on realtor.com, on the landscape I used to think I knew. It really does give one heartache, and I want to run from it, and actually think I could and it largely wouldn't catch me before my life ended - fall in love with somewhere less likely to be erased in my lifetime. Of course there is still tons and tons of good out there, and that is where most of my focus lies, but it is hard to say goodbye to a chunk of earth in your neck of the woods. It's like breaking up with someone but continuing to have to see them every day.

One person's pleasure is another person's pain. I find myself struggling to keep the pain from turning to anger, with mixed results.

 

[BuzzH]

I have always wondered why our Governor's and politicians always pushed growth and development so hard. Even now Gov G is campaigning for more people moving here. I hate it and am really glad I have my little place where no one else will ever want to go.

Why are you wondering?

A legislature dominated by R's and the almighty dollar, nothing leaves me wondering about their agenda. They're always pro-growth, pro-development, pro-extraction, pro-big business.

They want to dispose of resources, take all the profits now, sell off state lands, etc. etc.

Been that way for a long, long time and now that R's have a super majority in Montana...I suggest a seat belt, its not going to just be bumpy.

 

[Ben Lamb]

If I've said it once I've said it 4 million times:

View attachment 251640

Fail, Billiam. Fail.

Protecting the vulnerable from disease is ethical and moral. Thanos' approach was ethical and moral as well - he simply let 1/2 of existence blink out in an egalitarian fashion.

Disease tends to focus on the poor, weak and disenfranchised.

 

[Irrelevant]

Disease tends to focus on the poor, weak and disenfranchised.

Not COVID, it was supposed to kill all the old people so the rest of us could get an inheritance before it was wasted on gold coins and sweaters
#sad
#lame
#weakdisease
#notwinning

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Fail, Billiam. Fail.

Protecting the vulnerable from disease is ethical and moral. Thanos' approach was ethical and moral as well - he simply let 1/2 of existence blink out in an egalitarian fashion.

Disease tends to focus on the poor, weak and disenfranchised.

Doc Hill is single-handedly responsible for the greatest expansion of humanity ever known.

It’s not just human vaccines, he created all the livestock vaccines that allowed factory farming to take place.

And he’s from Montana… and



Story really just makes it’s own gravy Ben.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Doc Hill is single-handedly responsible for the greatest expansion of humanity our species has ever known.

It’s not just human vaccines, he created all the livestock vaccines that allowed factory farming to take place.

And he’s from Montana… and

View attachment 251661

Story really just makes it’s own gravy Ben.

Ok, Herr Dr.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Not COVID, it was supposed to kill all the old people so the rest of us could get an inheritance before it was wasted on gold coins and sweaters
#sad
#lame
#weakdisease
#notwinning

I kinda miss 2020.

 

[longbow51]

Lots of folks rewriting rants from "Desert Solitaire" and "The Money Wrench Gang". We were warned.

 

[BackofBeyond]

I kinda miss 2020.

People suck. I miss social distancing.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Ok, Herr Dr.