Population Growth and Hunting in Rocky Mountain States

[genesis273]

Soooo, is this a bad time to mention that I want to move to Bozeman when I retire in 7 years?!

 

[onpoint]

Soooo, is this a bad time to mention that I want to move to Bozeman when I retire in 7 years?!

Not at all. You'll love it along with the other 22000 other hunters and fishermen who will have "recruited" to the (use to be) Valley of the Flowers that year.
When you plan on moving let me know - at about that time I should have a nice 1300 sf subdivision home on a landscaped half acre to sell ya' for about $650000.
You'll be able to fish a nice city reservoir called Hyalite for stunted brookies, hunt for a few run-ragged cow elk in March on a bare ground block management area on the west edge of town, and hike the "M" on Sundays (if you draw the permit) - all with great and plentiful republican-money-grubbing-ruin-everything-for-profit comraderie from those who think Bozeman is a paradise, because of the mass of money moving around in the community.

Take it from experience.....................

 

[WyoDoug]

I know Colorado is not what it used to be in the areas I used to hunt. The area I used to hunt bear and elk near Montrose is now developed cabins and homes. Nearly impossible to get back into where I used to hunt.

 

[mtmuley]

Soooo, is this a bad time to mention that I want to move to Bozeman when I retire in 7 years?!

I have 4000 square feet in a daylight on five acres I'll let go for less than onpoints deal. In the Root though. So many deer and elk you can't keep landscaping. mtmuley

 

[rmauch20]

Well FFS can we all just stop crying about the lack of hunter recruitment then?

This x1000

 

[Southern Elk]

The West has been filling up since Lewis and Clark first broke the Trail. There’s nothing that anyone can do to stop it. People are moving here for the same reasons that we all moved here or our parents and grandparents moved here.

I’m reminded of the book The Big Sky. Boone went west in 1830 and ran into his uncle who was one of the first mountain men. Uncle Zeb was upset the west was filling up way back then. “The whole shitaree. Gone, by God.” This was less than 30 years after the Lewis and Clark expedition.

I know that book was fiction, but I can’t help but think that every generation hates the changes that they see with growth in the West.

I know I wish I could have seen it while it was still wild, but there’s still no place that I’d rather be right now than Montana.

 

[----]

People will keep breeding (at a more than necessary rate) and will keep moving around and bringing their shit with 'em.

It's amazing how many problems would be solved if we stopped making so many humans at such an alarming rate...

I'm absolutely shocked at how much Montana has changed in my adult lifetime. Opening day of bear season this year there were 7 rigs with BHA plates parked in a spot that even 5 years ago I had to myself. Almost all my plans now revolve around where I think the least amount of pressure is, rather than where I actually want to go.

I go to rural Wyoming now and am very envious. I apply for jobs like crazy, but know that if I got one and moved I'd be no better than the hoards flocking here.

 

[Pelican]

Well FFS can we all just stop crying about the lack of hunter recruitment then?

Sure, if you can explain to me how fewer people advocating for a public resource in the future will somehow ensure its perpetual existence at current levels.

 

[onpoint]

People are moving here for the same reasons that we all moved here or our parents and grandparents moved here.

The Big Sky was a favorite of mine as a kid. Great book and I agree, lotsa' analogies in there to today's west.
However, I'll differ with you on one point......
When I showed up in Bozo, it was knowing that there were NO jobs, one's that existed were crappy wages, and housing was dirt cheap - but hunting and fishing were THE reasons. Dirtbags like me showed up with everything we owned packed in the bed of a rusty '74 GMC 1/2 ton - and could do alright in the Gallatin Valley.
Many Many of today's migrants are coming here FOR THE MONEY and/or arriving WITH THE MONEY.
I was over on the Madison today playing bumper boats with the floating chamber of commerce and their $600/day+tip clientele.
The pretentiousness of affluence runs deep in SW Montana. Congrats to those who have capitalized on it. Things change.
Some of us just find it a little sad - just like Uncle Zeb........................................

 

[Southern Elk]

People are moving here for the same reasons that we all moved here or our parents and grandparents moved here.

The Big Sky was a favorite of mine as a kid. Great book and I agree, lotsa' analogies in there to today's west.
However, I'll differ with you on one point......
When I showed up in Bozo, it was knowing that there were NO jobs, one's that existed were crappy wages, and housing was dirt cheap - but hunting and fishing were THE reasons. Dirtbags like me showed up with everything we owned packed in the bed of a rusty '74 GMC 1/2 ton - and could do alright in the Gallatin Valley.
Many Many of today's migrants are coming here FOR THE MONEY and/or arriving WITH THE MONEY.
I was over on the Madison today playing bumper boats with the floating chamber of commerce and their $600/day+tip clientele.
The pretentiousness of affluence runs deep in SW Montana. Congrats to those who have capitalized on it. Things change.
Some of us just find it a little sad - just like Uncle Zeb........................................

There still aren’t very many good jobs for the people that live here. My wife and I both took pay cuts to move here. I think a good chunk of the people moving here now already have money.

We moved here for the quality of life. If I were to move somewhere strictly for hunting, it would be Wyoming.

I agree about the sad state of affairs that is the Madison this time of year. All of those drift boats drive right by my office window everyday. Makes me glad I don’t own one and have to fight those crowds. Give me a mountain lake instead of the river any day. But again, I certainly can’t blame people for wanting to be on the river.

As you know some people are trying to limit the number of guides on the river. I’ve been told by multiple people that the % of guides on the river is 15-20%. That means that the people really overcrowding the river are regular folks who live or visit here and own their own boats. Something will have to give at some point.

 

[Elkmagnet]

It's amazing how many problems would be solved if we stopped making so many humans at such an alarming rate...

Absolutely! People with 6+ kids who are complaining about all of the un confirmed "Californians" parked at idaho trail heads.
I just look at the population growth charts and think we cannot continue on this trajectory. Can the earth support nearly twice as many people in the next 80 years?

 

[rtraverdavis]

Sorry to ramble without providing anything in the way of solutions.

Thanos...

But seriously, this is something that occupies way too much of my thoughts, and I don’t think there is a solution. Imagine if someone in congress proposed a mandated limit on the number of babies a person can make? I guess the only thing for us to do is fight like hell for the wildlife and wildlife habitat we have left. Going to have to get creative in the coming years.

 

[Rancho Loco]

I think a lot of this could be fixed by people keeping their mouths shut.

 

[squirrel]

Drive down hunter success not participation, Bow season recurves and long bows only, rifle season is flintlocks with patched round balls, except for predators then machine guns on helicopters are OK... Puts me almost in line with Nameless. This stuff of one guy covering 1000 yards in a 360 degree vantage point cannot continue without severe ripple effects into other areas, and it's a given that reducing $ flowing into gov't is never going to be on the table.

 

[OverlordBear]

OVERPOPULATION of the human species is the ticking time bomb for this planet. Our hunting problem is just a symptom of the larger problem. We can’t have 7 billion people on the planet and growing with access to American lifestyles without hollowing the planet. The only way to fix it is to limit people to a two child per family limit.

I know some of you will balk but this issue is the single issue that causes me the most anxiety at night because I am almost powerless to stop it. Enjoy it while you can.

 

[el unit]

My wife and I both took pay cuts to move here.

We moved here for the quality of life.

Us too. Last time I made this kind of money was 20 years ago right out of high school.
Lifestyle, hunting, and fishing are why we are here. Wouldn't have it any other way!
And no, we didn't come here with money.

"The Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world" Del Gue

 

[devon deer]

Blimey you guys, try living where I do, my whole country you could fit inside Montana 2 1/2 times and yet we have 66 million people living here, no public land, all private, people tend to wonder where they want, and a huge anti shooting brigade, be careful, I might consider moving to Montana to get away from all this
Cheers
Richard

 

[Elkmagnet]

This article shoots a lot of holes in my thoughts.

US population growth hits 80-year low, capping off a year of demographic stagnation

The U.S. population growth is slowing down as baby boomers age and millennials delay starting families. Immigration is the key to continued growth.

www.brookings.edu

 

[jlong17]

great post @Big Fin . I often feel like I was born in the wrong era and definitely in the wrong state. I am a millennial that has spent my entire life living in crazy Southern California. I spend many months of the year traveling with my wife and young daughter to the "Wild" states. When I am away from this hectic life in CA, I feel at at home and rejuvenated by the mountains. I know many of you on here were lucky enough to grow up in places like the Bitterroot Valley- before us Californians "ruined it", or in the Idaho Panhandle- before the CA transplants "invaded it"... but just know that many of us are trying to escape the same thing, the concrete jungle that is littered with laws and regulations and people... LOTS of people. We want to enjoy the wild places as well. We are on the same team... we are not all vegans driving Prius's with Coexist stickers on our bumpers. I don't know what the solution is either moving forward, but I do know my generation desperately needs the "older/wiser" generation to take us under your wing and provide mentorship... especially me, I have no idea what the heck an elk even looks like on the ground

 

[BigHornRam]

My first summer out of high school in 81 I took a motorcycle trip out west. From previous backpack trips, I already knew that's where I planned to live. How was a different story. I pulled into the Grizzley Bar in Roscoe Montana for a burger and beer before packing in to the Beartooths. I told the locals how much I liked the area, and they told me how out of staters are ruining it. Not much has changed in almost 40 years!

I can't blame people for wanting to move to the mountain states. One thought though.......just think how crowded it would be if it was easy to make a living here.