No I did not. But the sad fact is that there are those that would flip the tables in that direction in heart beat if they could.
Point Creep realistic topping out number
- Thread starter ChrisB
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Sam Beavers
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Even the draw in Iowa is getting crazy for Whitetail. Taking 5 years to draw a bow tag and 2 to 3 years for a gun tag.
BuzzH
Well-known member
I think more people might be in favor of that if the money being taken in was actually doing any good to improve herds.
Take a look at MT, ID, WY, in the 80's-90's for sheep tags...look at the number of tags now.
I could make a pretty compelling case that the only thing the governors tags are benefitting is paid staff of NGO's, a handful of research biologists, etc.
I'm seeing money going out by the bucketful and less sheep to hunt...
I suppose the argument would be that without the Gov tags it would be even worse than it is now, perhaps?
Yes, tough comment, but it would be nice if we were seeing more sheep on the hill instead of fewer and fewer every year.
I think there better be a turn-around with sheep or the peasants might start asking some tough questions.
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Caseknife
Well-known member
Both my Dad and Uncle were still hunting and killing elk well into their 80's, this was camping on their own and packing out the animals on their backs. Just depends on your physical fitness. I'm with WapitiBob, draw what you can and hunt. If you wait to draw a premium tag before you start hunting elk, it ain't going to work out well.
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Take it a step further. What is the real cost of the disenfranchisement of hunters that comes with awareness this “ conservation” is hinged upon personal the benefits of very small subset of the community?
If only people had been so vocal when the Iowa DNR was giving out governor's tags by the bucket full to every country music singer or guy with a TV show to promote deer hunting in Iowa. NRLO's getting tags will pass eventually, there's too much money involved now and drawing an archery tag every 4-6 years isn't going to fly. I played around on OnX recently where some of the Drury crew owns land and if you think their neighbors that own orthodontic practices and multi-state wholesale distribution companies aren't going to spend the cash lobbying to get some kind of break in that dam, well, I don't know what to tell you. Hell, I'd bet $500 Gun 1 and 2 will drop all caliber restrictions within 5 years.
I’m glad there’s an auction tag to fund conservation efforts and I’ve volunteered at water projects in the last year that were funded by the auction tag.
That said, there’s valid criticism to be made when Kuiu Conservation Direct is closing in on moving as many sheep in the last two years 100% privately funded as WSF has moved in a decade.
That said, there’s valid criticism to be made when Kuiu Conservation Direct is closing in on moving as many sheep in the last two years 100% privately funded as WSF has moved in a decade.
HONEYBADGER
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There needs to be some disenfranchisement. Too many hunters recruited in the last 15 years by the "hunter numbers are going down" lies and social media. Once people realize they have to wait 20-25 years for a tag in every western state, eventually they will stop waiting.
I'm not out here buying auction tags wealthy, but I've been a banquet sponsor for Ruffed Grouse Society several times in the past and lately I've stopped because I haven't seen any tangible evidence that my money is going towards better grouse habitat and increased bird numbers. Sure, they highlight some rinky dink 27 acre clear cut they helped facilitate on state land in Pennsylvania or West Virginia, but where I hunt in the upper Great Lakes, grouse are doing ok because of county forest land getting the chainsaw like it needs every few years. I'll keep my membership current at this point, but nothing more.
I'm starting to lean that way with regards to WSF. I keep seeing how much money gets raised on auction tags, how many new members have joined, how I can donate another $2k and join a new membership level that raffles off a desert bighorn hunt in Mexico, and never see where opportunity has increased and "more sheep are on the mountain." I don't know the efficacy of what they're doing, but Kuiu Conservation Direct has certainly put a lot of sheep in places they weren't before in a very short period of time.
ImBillT
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I don’t have a problem with landowner tags, resident or otherwise. They purchase, own, operate, maintain and pay taxes on the habitat that the animals live on. If they get a tag, so be it.
If you take a land owner tag away, is the person who hunted it going to stay out of the draw?
D
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Yeah I took a survey a while back and most folks bought their first point after ~25.
For the most part people aren’t doing DIY elk/sheep whatever hunts after 70, let alone living that long. Life expectancy for men is 75, I think hunters as a cohort eat too much red meat, smoke, and drink more than 4-5 drinks a week and there for are probably living below the average of 75 years.
Further Oak made a spreadsheet a while back that showed non-drawing attrition for hunts… it’s higher than you might think.
I mean it’s possible someone is super unlucky and their parents bought them MT bonus points since birth and at 64 have 65 bonus points… but that’s highly unlikely and won’t be the norm of the point pool.
As it is if you look at most of the CO preference point hunts you can actually draw with 3-4 years below max points. Some people have max and just buy points… you know to make sure their knees are definitely f-d before they apply
BuzzH
Well-known member
That's funny...the bolded part.Yeah I took a survey a while back and most folks bought their first point after ~25.
For the most part people aren’t doing DIY elk/sheep whatever hunts after 70, let alone living that long. Life expectancy for men is 75, I think hunters as a cohort eat too much red meat, smoke, and drink more than 4-5 drinks a week and there for are probably living below the average of 75 years.
Further Oak made a spreadsheet a while back that showed non-drawing attrition for hunts… it’s higher than you might think.
I mean it’s possible someone is super unlucky and their parents bought them MT bonus points since birth and at 64 have 65 bonus points… but that’s highly unlikely and won’t be the norm of the point pool.
As it is if you look at most of the CO preference point hunts you can actually draw with 3-4 years below max points. Some people have max and just buy points… you know to make sure their knees are definitely f-d before they apply
Pick up a copy of a sheep hunting magazine...I would imagine the hair color listed on the average sheep tag holder is either gray, blue, or none.
D
Deleted member 18333
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I fit two of those three criteria and I'm only 48.
BuzzH
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I did too when I drew my sheep tag at 51...I was just looking at Shoshone's webpage, you would be young at 48 hunting sheep with them.
D
Deleted member 28227
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DIY…
BuzzH
Well-known member
Already have.
The presentation by the WYGF on the age of sheep tags holders is out there on the task force webpage.
The oldest that drew in 2021 was mid-late 80's.
D
Deleted member 28227
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What is the aggregate, mean age of all .01% tag holders across every western state. Moose, Sheep, Goat, Elk, Mule deer etc. Do you really thinks it’s over the average life expectancy of white men in the US which is 75.1?
Because that was my point, you are arguing a straw man. I’m sure a 93 year old has killed a sheep… probably a 12 year old as well, outliers.
D
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Buzz I go to task force web page... find this a whole presentation on sheep preference points, aging out etc.
What to I find... oh, they model age 65 as the max age.
Come on there guy...
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