Poachers in the Elkhorns

[nk_hillbilly]

No offense to anybody. But Honestly a poached animal is a poached animal ain't it? All this talk of trophy animal poachers should be raked across the coals. But really the only difference is some bone. I think by going that route we are voluntarily conforming ourselves to the anti-hunters' stereo-type of who we are and what we care about. It says we value antlers, is that what you guys wanna stand for? I think if a penalty isn't stiff enough for 200" moster, it's not stiff enough for a spike. JMO

 

[RobG]

"The elk didn't qualify as a trophy class bull?!!!!! WTF??

IMO, ANY branch antlered bull elk taken ANYWHERE, regardless should be classified as trophy class... There are ALOT of hunters out there that consider any branch antlered bull elk
a trophy...

For the sake of things like this, trophy animals are defined based on measurements (320 gross antler score, or certain antler spreads... see page 15 of the MT regs). Poaching a trophy has a heavier fine, $8000 for an elk. It might be time to up that fine.

 

[BigBull301]

All three should be sitting in a jail cell.

 

[ThndrChkn]

I completely understand the regs and what they classify as a trophy animal... Like stated above, poaching is poaching, and it seems our FWP is satisfied that some punishment is better than nothing... I say B.S. !! These people need to be made examples of !! There needs to be a ZERO tolerance policy on poaching of ANY kind... Screw the fact that IF they shoot a "Trophy Class" animal the fine is $8000.00 for an elk... Yada yada yada...

I'll bet if they made the fines/penalties this stiff for ANY poached animal, regardless of score, the majority of these clowns would at least think before they attempted it... Jail time should be mandatory also... These people are stealing from the honest sportsmen/women, and these acts should be treated as such... Accidental shooting is one thing, but these people had one thing in mind when they went out... And judging by their actions with the first bull, had no intentions of doing it right...

 

[belly-deep]

Apparently they're more concerned about Asians eating bear gall bladders....

 

[Flynarrow]

Thunderchicken...A couple of us in Montana Bowhunters Assn worked very hard to get the Trophy Poaching regulations in place a number of years ago. MBA stood for the right thing then and generally does now. .Getting poaching penalties changed is not easy. We had to define something with unusual dollar value, thus the scores that seemed universally acceptable. We originally tried to get confiscation of equipment used in the crime....but were told by the Legislator who agreed to sponsor that this was a "private property state" and that would kill the bill. We also learned a lot about the power of the ag community in the legislature, and partisan politics. Your rant sounds like another one of those "somebody should do something" type of whines some of us have heard all to often, but hard to find a group or people to take it on. It is easy to take shots. My challenge to you is to be that "somebody" that makes poaching penalties stiffer.....go for it. I think you will learn something along the way.

 

[ThndrChkn]

No need to explain the complications of trying to get things accomplished with our legislature or any other officials, especially in this state... My rant is more than likely just that... I've emailed many on this issue and have had no more luck than you have and have been told more times than I can recall, the same things you speak of...

I will however, keep emailing and calling whoever I need to and do my part as a sportsman to try and get something done... Who knows, maybe someday somebody will hear and listen...

 

[Flynarrow]

Go for it

Thunderchicken....several years ago a couple of us in the Montana Bowhunters Assn worked very hard for a whole year and thru the legislative session to to get the Trophy Poaching law passed. MBA stood up for what was right. We had to draft a bill, find a sponsor and work it thru all the committee and both legislative bodies. We had to get people to call their legislators....did you call? We took poached heads into the committee rooms. We had to establish "value" to get the restitution amounts we did, thus the minimum scoresl. We tried to get confiscation of equipment used but were told MT is a "private property state" and that would kill the bill. We learned a lot. Your rant sounds like "somebody should do something" I hear all too often while nobody does anything about it. Instead of whining about the situation, I challenge you to take it on and make poaching penalties even stiffer. I think you will learn a lot!

 

[ThndrChkn]

I got it the first time you posted it... I said the laws need to be changed... I'm not whining about the situation... Just stating my opinion... I do my part, I make phone calls to my legislators, & FWP, this also includes emails, etc. I tell everyone I know that I think will do it, to do the same things ... Like I said, maybe someday it will get somewhere, but so far all we get is the same answers you already got...

I, like everybody else on or off this forum am entitled to an opinion, and that appears to bother people like yourself, which makes no difference to me one way or the other... I also support a few issues that your MBA is against, but that's perhaps another thread at another time... I'm not a member of the MBA, nor will I ever be... I support P&Y & SCI clubs, as they do more for the sportsmen/women than any other... Period!!

 

[Topgun 30-06]

So it's okay that he shot the bull and wounded it, then waited for several hours to help carry out and hide the illegal bull, then went back and finished off the legal bull?

***It's not ethical, but not illegal because the old man had a tag for the animal he actually shot according to the link!

 

[Topgun 30-06]

It's quite clear they were engaged in party hunting, which is illegal in MT. They went out with the intention of shooting a bull regardless of who got the shot. I think that should have been taken into account with the bull the old guy shot. Even though there was a tag it was taken illegally, while party hunting. It seems a loophole has been opened for party hunting where if multiple animals are killed the one tagged stays with the hunters...oops I mean poachers.

***Having retired after 30+ years in a LE Investigator position with the MI Dept. of Agriculture and having been involved in many court cases over those years, it is not as easy as you might think to prosecute someone for a lot of different types of crimes. In the case we're talking about there evidently was no evidence to prove that the old man did not shoot the bull that he had the tag for even though it would appear that since all three were carrying rifles that the intent may have been for any of them to fill that tag. Many people are allowed to enter into a plea bargain so that expensive court time is not spent with the possibility that a person might get off completely, especially in the case of a jury trial. I don't disagree with the fact that they got off very easy. It's too bad they didn't lose both animals, the vehicles, guns, and anything else involved during the commission of those infractions, along with losing their hunting priviledges for more than two years. The latter is sort of a joke even though it is supposed to cover about 40 states in the Violator Compact Act, but guys that are cheating and violating the law probably don't give a damn about that anyway. Certain wildlife crimes are now being prosecuted as felonies, which should include minimum mandatory jail time along with a loss of all guns for life as a convicted felon. A lot more that are classified as misdemeanors should be changed to felony status IMHO. I think all of us agree that they all got off pretty easy, but to take both elk when the guy had a tag for it and was the one who shot it according to the link wouldn't be legal for the officers to do the way the laws are at the present time.

 

[mtmuley]

A man can be measured by what he does when he thinks no one else can observe his actions. mtmuley

 

[Topgun 30-06]

A man can be measured by what he does when he thinks no one else can observe his actions. mtmuley

***Yep!!!

 

[mtmuley]

None of those guys measure up. I don't give a rip if the old mans kill was considered "legal" or not. mtmuley