FWP Proposed Changes - 2021 Season Setting

[Sytes]

well this got off track quickly...

Frustration over a public ramming open public comment into the shredder and left over hostilities towards muzzy found undesirable by few, some, many... pick your group.

I like muzzy as a specific season, traditional. I don't like the season time frame chosen to extend our duration.
Gerald raises a serious issue with free roaming snowmobiles of past/current concurring with traditional muzzy season.

I'm off to the meeting. Figured it's good to have some TR options vs... if question posed, etc.

Best

 

[MTGomer]

We look at the comments as being 95% opposed to the shoulder seasons expansion.

others may say that only .012% of Montanans expressed opposition to them.

 

[Irishman]

Went to the Region 1 meeting tonight. Came away with a much more positive feeling about the Director and FWP leadership than I went into it with. I feel like they want to do what's best. On the other hand I was not at all impressed with the State Representatives in attendance - one just kept repeating how the forest service needs to do more logging, like that was the solution to everything. I worked for Plumcreek for 26 years, and if I want to find a big elk, I can assure you I don't look on the land Plumcreek logged.

 

[Sytes]

Same as yourself. A more defined intent than presented here, to some degree. Maybe more whitewashed?
I think your speaking of Rep. Fielder regarding his relation to finality to WW2 vs the time frame from start to finish for a timber project. Piss poor attempt to show a time based parallel though otherwise, true?
If so, I would support correcting that lame stall as discussed with various FS supporting the stalled pattern. What that has to do w/ fwp and the main issues vs representing other interests? Somewhat, maybe?
TNC has shown a VAST quality of flora fauna with proper thinning projects vs clear-cut of old and our current thick forests of R1, etc.

After the meeting I questioned Worsech about the lack of public comment representation... one I had hoped to ask publicly though it was a quality Q & A session, imo.
His statement: That public comment session is the work of the Commission, not under his role as the Director.
True and that is accurate. According to the public comment inquiry: it was directed by and to the Commission - set to create the regs that fwp follows, in a general sense.

Daily Interlake news was present so I'd imagine something will reach print. He asked for my info for print.

I didn't realize that MT now permits trapper associations to accept donations to support Trapper efforts with wolves. That was great to hear.

Seemed there were various areas discussed. Some gents with good knowledge present to counter or at least point out the questionable setting between shoulder season public vs private. Was great to see a civil debate w/o killing the clock.

Spoke of reducing /redefining districts to simplify the process for applicants the dramatic swell of new ALS issuance due to the surge of Covid transplants. Basically thus far, it's equal to the current total non residents of past annual visits to MT! I think that number is calculated from several months ago and doesn't tally the current.

Spoke of in person hunters education vs online.

Spoke of muzzy R1 "traditional" specific in conjunction with snowmobile activity. That will hopefully be positively represented in the Interlake article... time will tell.

Many areas discussed edit added:
Support mandated harvest entries, digital tagging, funding requests granted including additional wardens including another for R1. Griz encounters w/ growing human and griz population. Granted fishing access, expansion of timber companies w/ a kudos to the two (or three?) BHA reps represent. Commending them for the organization based citizenry cleanup that goes a long way for landowners and public access, a bit about the Snowies (inquired by a bha rep),

Overall, it was a quality debate on some issues and quality support for intent on many other issues.

Little Ceasars pizza and water / pop almost had me sold to whatever eco extreme or smoke a pack a day desired... now a good micro brew w/ pepperoni pizza and I'd sign a blank check.

 

[Nameless Range]

Thanks for your assessments. I think they are valuable, and hope others can provide the same when their regional meetings come along.

 

[brocksw]

After the meeting I questioned Worsech about the lack of public comment representation... one I had hoped to ask publicly though it was a quality Q & A session, imo.
His statement: That public comment session is the work of the Commission, not under his role as the Director.
True and that is accurate. According to the public comment inquiry: it was directed by and to the Commission - set to create the regs that fwp follows, in a general sense.

So in the case of the public lands shoulder seasons....did the Commission just conveiently omit the 94% of comments against the proposal? Do those comments and consensus of the public even make it to the fwp? Or does the Commission just throw it to the shredder?

Seems like a cop-out by the Director to me. It should be his business to weigh public comment.

#EndtheFWPCommision

 

[tjones]

Or does the Commission just throw it to the shredder?

Seems like a cop-out by the Director to me. It should be his business to weigh public comment.

By the time proposals make it to the commission level very rarely do they get changed.

Big time cop-out by a guy touting "customer service."

 

[brocksw]

By the time proposals make it to the commission level very rarely do they get changed.

That's backwards. Public comment should be taken before any plan or proposal reaches its final stages.

 

[tjones]

That's backwards. Public comment should be taken before any plan or proposal reaches its final stages.

They do. But if hunters expect the commission to make changes to proposals they did not get during the tentatives or scoping process - well it will be a long wait.

 

[brocksw]

They do. But if hunters expect the commission to make changes to proposals they did not get during the tentatives or scoping process - well it will be a long wait.

I can't find and did not see a scoping or tentative comment period for the shoulder season proposal. Was there one?

 

[Sytes]

@Gerald Martin and others involved in future meetings.

<Initially posted this in your round table though I deleted and moved it here to not cloud your discussion to create a group meeting.>

I brought up RMEF's opposition comment re: public land shoulder season. His response was the same as shared in the R2 meeting @MTelkHuntress mentioned, the elk have learned to push off private and hang around the outskirts of the public side.
Also, on note of the R1 comment re snowmobile free roaming during "traditional" muzzy. His response was same can be done with atv's. I was the first to ask questions and didn't want to drag out the q & a. Had I been able to quickly shoot it down I would have responded about gate closure and should have though I let it go at that point to keep q&a less about just my concerns. Hindsight 20/20 i should have followed up..
FWIW.... good opportunity to prep for likely same response.

Really like your position to prepare for comment/responses. Civil dialogue made it a respectful debate and all kept it reasonably short. Later towards the end, having heard comments and responses I added an additional position in support of muzzy (which some may/may not agree) stating it should not extend the season later into the year. Had it been applied, I would have been supportive for Limited one week snipped out of the end of archery.

His general response was people are concerned over pregnant cows... he said they're pregnant during rifle... one can argue where to consider killing pregnant elk though at that point its personal decision.

Not sharing to debate the topics, rather share a few points of his response. I audio recorded the entire meeting. If you'd like, I can shoot it your way.

Personally there were some great ideas mixed with a few large piss poor ideas (mass overall public shoulder season).

It was a great meeting civil and disputes were heard. Bozeman holds a lot more power with knowledge on the large poor decisions... your round table is great!

There were many topics discussed, as mentioned many pretty cool ideas though over shadowed by a few large issues. As @Irishman commented, it was in many ways... a better view of the setting. I recall the comments in response to mine as they stick a bit better to my fly trap brain though many comments made by a couple more knowledgeable and one guru with budget #'s.

A bit bummed I'm not as knowledgeable on aspects such as commission vs Director for comments as our FWP Commissioner Tabor was present. Remained quiet while allowing Director Worsech to take the heat / brunt of the Commissioner decisions... I would have directed my RMEF and other comment related questions his way. Live/learn...

 

[Sytes]

Released responses not desired Conspiracy or merely an article linked incorrectly?

https://dailyinterlake.com/news/2021/aug/31/new-fwp-director-talks-public-access-grizzlies-nor/

This is more humor based as Daily Interlake is a decent news outlet in NW MT.

 

[Schaaf]

Get your Comments in before October 20th People.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Get your Comments in before October 20th People.

And if you have sent comments in, be sure to share those so folks can use your knowledge in their own, personally crafted, letter.

 

[Schaaf]

Last day folks

 

[Nameless Range]

They make it easy on ya.

Public Comment Opportunities | Montana FWP

Fish, Wildlife & Parks offers various opportunities for the public to comment on issues, rules, grants, environmental assessments, land acquisition, development or enhancement projects, council recommendations, hunting and fishing regulations, etc. that FWP manages.

fwp.mt.gov

 

[Irrelevant]

I submitted mine yesterday. I kept it very big picture.
1. Stop hunting mule deer during the rut.
2. Stop the war on elk.
3. Shorten all seasons.

 

[timmy]

I submitted mine yesterday. I kept it very big picture.
1. Stop hunting mule deer during the rut.
2. Stop the war on elk.
3. Shorten all seasons.

Pick a district to hunt.
Make elk permits the same as deer so you are stuck to that season/area.

 

[4ohSick]

Pick a district to hunt.
Make elk permits the same as deer so you are stuck to that season/area.

I have mixed feelings on the permits point. I think it would likely decrease traffic in popular hunting camp destinations like SW MT and Eastern MT, but would increase traffic and harvest around population centers where the herds are already small... The deer permits around Helena certainly haven't led to a bunch of good muley bucks - people who designate shoot the first one they see since they're locked to the area.

 

[golfer]

I have mixed feelings on the permits point. I think it would likely decrease traffic in popular hunting camp destinations like SW MT and Eastern MT, but would increase traffic and harvest around population centers where the herds are already small... The deer permits around Helena certainly haven't led to a bunch of good muley bucks - people who designate shoot the first one they see since they're locked to the area.

People should have to declare where they will hunt. I mean those who draw the Bitterroot deer tag have to hunt there no where else. Sometimes making hard choices is difficult. I don’t think people should able too hunt the Custer one day for elk then turn around and hunt in Missoula then next day.