Yes and yes. Is there any history of hunters lobbying state legislatures on this front? Besides the animal itself, seems like the hunting community are whom this thievery most effects, and I can't see why people would be opposed to it unless they are the poachers themselves...
Poached elk
- Thread starter wytex
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pabearhunter
Well-known member
If the court IS NOT giving the full penalty of law for that crime it is the COURTS fault .
elkduds
Well-known member
Disgusting, slobbish, reprehensible, asinine, infuriating. Maybe the head will get noticed and lead to someone getting caught, not very likely. If I were the judge, poachers would forfeit everything they own that was related to poaching: vehicles, weapons, optics, real estate where they hid it, everything. They would have enough wildlife-related community service to keep them busy every weekend for a few years, and long probation so when they eff up again, they start all over w a new set of penalties.
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EKYHunter
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Yes they do.
jbseamus83
Well-known member
This is a really interesting. I haven't thought it all the way through yet, but I remember reading a statistic that only about 20% of incidents of poaching are actually reported. And then you figure that only a certain percentage of those reported are actually solved. One of the biggest changes that could occur is to have more reports made by those who see, find, or know of poaching occurring. So, how do we incentivize that? I don't know if a bonus point like you suggested is the correct answer, but I think it's worth considering for sure.
D
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They definitely need more severe fines at this point. A slap on the wrist does nothing
stealthy_bowman
Well-known member
Total waste. I seriously don’t understand what the rationale is for keeping fines associated with poaching so stupidly low.
Other than poachers, who would actually complain if someone got a $100k fine, coupled with jail time, for poaching?!?
The fact that people pay more to go on a legal guided trophy hunt, then the fines poachers get when they get caught killing a trophy illegally, is just plain crazy.
Time to drastically up the penalties!
Other than poachers, who would actually complain if someone got a $100k fine, coupled with jail time, for poaching?!?
The fact that people pay more to go on a legal guided trophy hunt, then the fines poachers get when they get caught killing a trophy illegally, is just plain crazy.
Time to drastically up the penalties!
Hammsolo
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and the 
(closest emoji to a stick)Humans are complex critters. I’m sure you’ve heard of intrinsic (inside) and extrinsic (outside) motivation. Within those two their are loads of motivation points. For example, intrinsically some of us are motivated by our value system. Extrinsically, many are motivated by money or prestige.
In my 20 years of working with students I’ve really observed that we’re all a unique blend, and respond differently to each. To shift behaviors there is no silver bullet, easy button, or quick fix. It will take cultural change shifted through a variety of strategies.
What about going beyond concrete hunters ed, and requiring deeper classes in ethics? Laws with higher consequences that are enforced to the fullest extent equitably? A reward system for ethical hunters and witnesses?
What is working in the current system?
What isn’t working?
What do we do now?
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Is Wyoming one of the states that punishes and fines exponentially based off the class or score of the poached animal? Isn’t that a growing concept in some states? I wonder if that would have deterred this.
Sry wytex… hope this isn’t a regular occurrence.
Sry wytex… hope this isn’t a regular occurrence.
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JF35
Active member
This stuff makes my stomach turn! I hope the idiots get all their hunting rights and gun rights stripped for life. I wish the fines and penalties where way stiffer. Everything aiding in the taking of this animal should be taken and sold off at auction for conservation programs for the animals
windymtnman
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As for your suggestion on giving the reporting party a bonus point for turning in a poacher, I'll tell you my experience here in Colorado. Back in about 1999, I was out scouting on a Thursday before the rifle season. My friend and I walked up on a guy that was also camped near us, processing a 5 pt. Bull. He ran off when he saw us, but we'd ID'd him easily. I called CPW and they arrived and they went and met with the poacher. Later that Winter, I called the Warden that had given me his business card and asked him whatever happened in this incident? He told me the guy had brought in the meat and antlers and was charged with a Felony. I HAD TO CALL THEM TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED, AND IN HINDSIGHT, WE NOW BELIEVE THIS GUY HAD BEEN DOING THIS FOR YEARS, AS HE ALWAYS SEEMED TO TAG OUT OPENING DAY, BUT IN THINKING ABOUT IT, WE NEVER HEARD HIS GUN SHOTS. SO, MY IMPRESSION OF CPW ISN'T SO SWELL WHEN YOU HAVE TO CALL THEM TO FIND OUT HOW THINGS WENT.
Cornell Cowboy
Well-known member
Was this in Sybille? I saw a bloated elk laying off the south side of the road when I was headed to Glendo on Sunday and it looks like a similar area.
Hammsolo
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This may have some potential. Growing up in Anaconda in the 80’s was interesting. After the smelter shut down the town collapsed. People with means that could find work emptied out. People in professional fields mostly hung around for a bit, but those without means struggled heavily.
My Dad was a psychologist and my Mom was a Nurse, so we didn’t really feel it. However, I had a friend down the street who’s dad was a miner. Most of their family and friends were tied to the mines. Their lives collapsed. I remember him taking me into the basement of their decrepit home and seeing deer hanging everywhere. I was probably 8 and my family weren’t hunters. I knew it was “wrong,” and asked him about it. His Dad was poaching deer to feed them and their extended family. This was real at that time and place. Is that really poaching?
So, do I think that is okay? No…, but it was how they survived. Someone in that situation should receive less punishment than someone in a situation like this. Heck, I don’t remember any antlers being around at that time. Do I know it decimated the deer population around Anaconda? Yes.
LopeHunter
Well-known member
Poaching. If I am unemployed and steal from 7-11 to feed my kids or rob a bank to pay the utility bill then the law does not really differentiate as to motive when knowingly break laws. Ignorance is not a very good defense either even if you rush to pack your bags to fly to Russia.
2ski
Well-known member
You can't equate the two. Shooting a deer to feed your family is not the same level as robbing someone. I mean where do you put someone that's stealing cable? Or using someone else's Netflix account? It's stealing so it must be the same and come with stiff penalties!
Does anyone find the irony in the shoot shovel shut up mentality when it comes to wolves vs how horrible poachers of elk and deer are viewed.
Poaching is wrong but to pretend it's as serious as crimes thay would send a person to prison for years is ludicrous.
2ski
Well-known member
Yeah I guess in my veiw the warden has better things to do than call and update you. Sure I get that it would be nice to know but you and me getting updated is probably very last on the list of priorities that I'd place on wardens. He gave you his card. If it was important to you you could nake the call. Just like you did.
Yes that is the one. Was the head there when you went by? GW is trying to get a timeline together.
I love how we've accidentally stumbled onto the entire plotline of Les Miserables.
MTLabrador
Well-known member
Huge fines and jail time seem like a great idea until you realize that in most of the country you have to commit a violent felony against another person to actually spend a single night in jail right now. You’ll never convince the judges or prosecutors to give the guy who killed an elk prison time, a $150,000 fine, and public whipping in the town square. The same judge probably just ROR’d a guy with felony warrants who got in a pursuit with police in a stolen car. Wildlife crimes are unfortunately a long ways down their priority list.
