Pack out service for hire? SW Montana

[RobG]

Hauling an elk out needs to be regulated because it is under the definition of activities included as outfitting. It most certainly can impact a resource, wouldn’t you agree? If I set up shop packing camps in and elk out, wouldn’t that potentially impact both a resource as well as the quality of the hunt? Do you want this to happened in your hunting area?

I wasn't calling BS on packing people into hunt camps - that's entirely different than simply retrieving an elk for someone. I can't see what regulating who can retrieve an elk accomplishes. It's not like there is going to be a change in the number of retrievals because you have to hire an outfitter unless the outfitter wants to discourage hunters from using his turf... and I'll call BS on that too.

 

[RobG]

Sorry for the screen shot, the quote function is acting funny . Giving the neighbor $20 to mow the lawn is also a commercial activity, but just because it’s a business doesn’t mean it has to be regulated. I once gave a guy $200 for pulling me out of gumbo because he had to drive about 100 miles RT to do so. It was also the night before the opener. It was still probably cheaper than a tow truck. Should that be illegal too?

 

[JLS]

I’m not going to argue endlessly Rob. Packing elk out an area makes it easier to exploit a resource, period. I don’t think you would argue that. Providing a service that aids or assists someone in hunting or harvesting an animal is considered outfitting. I don’t remember the exact verbiage and don’t care enough to look it up.

It’s something several western states have deemed worthy of regulation, and one agree with. If you don’t like it, get the law changed.

 

[JLS]

I once gave a guy $200 for pulling me out of gumbo because he had to drive about 100 miles RT to do so. It was also the night before the opener. It was still probably cheaper than a tow truck. Should that be illegal too?

If the state deemed it worth requiring a license, then yes.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I don't know what ever happened back around the year 2000 in Wyoming when the NFS was mandating that the Wyoming Horses operation down in Pavilion could not take their horses up and drop them off at various NFS trailheads in Wyoming for people that had rented them to include dropping them off and picking them back up at a particular spot without them being properly licensed to operate in those locations. The owners were fighting them tooth and nail over the ruling and were asking all their clients to contact the NFS on their behalf to reverse the ruling. When I rented horses from them back in 97 and 99 I was picking them up at their ranch and then returning them there and there was no license required of them by the NFS or BLM, but their transporting them on and off the NF for compensation was very similar to what is being talked about on this thread about being license/permitted to pack an elk out of the NF.

 

[RobG]

I’m not going to argue endlessly Rob. Packing elk out an area makes it easier to exploit a resource, period. I don’t think you would argue that. Providing a service that aids or assists someone in hunting or harvesting an animal is considered outfitting. I don’t remember the exact verbiage and don’t care enough to look it up.

It’s something several western states have deemed worthy of regulation, and one agree with. If you don’t like it, get the law changed.

I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything. I'm actually surprised you agree with this. I think you would have a point if they regulated the number of elk being packed out, but this is just who gets the gravy.

 

[TheNorthStar]

Nevermind. Not getting involved, heh.

 

[RobG]

I've had friends bring in horses and pack out bulls for me. Then we sat on the tailgate and drank a six pack. Hope neither of us were in violation. mtmuley

There is a line you can't cross - something like more than normal splitting of costs, etc.

 

[mtmuley]

Entirely different scenario. If you came over and drank a six pack while helping me install cabinets, that wouldn’t be contracting would it? What if I called you up and said I’ll give you five Benjamin’s? I think you’d agree one is a commercial activity and the other is not.

Shoulda used the sarcasm emoji. I get the rules. mtmuley

 

[JLS]

Shoulda used the sarcasm emoji. I get the rules. mtmuley

Roger :W:

 

[mtmuley]

Roger :W:

I have however, set cabinets for a six pack or two. mtmuley

 

[BigHornRam]

I have however, set cabinets for a six pack or two. mtmuley

I think Rob's past a couple 6 packs tonight.

 

[MTlionchaser]

Actually it is not illegal for some one to retrieve game for someone else. There is no permit or lisc needed for it. They are neither outfitting or guiding anything.

 

[mtmiller]

Actually it is not illegal for some one to retrieve game for someone else. There is no permit or lisc needed for it. They are neither outfitting or guiding anything.

When $$ becomes involved, making it a commercial activity, it does require a permit.

 

[Idahoarcheryhunter]

But if you give them gas money is it considered commercial? I mean how many ways can you twist and turn this cmon.

 

[Yellowstoner]

So when the Born and Raised guys gave the dudes $100 to borrow their rented horses for the day, they would've been in game violation? Rinella just covered illegal bartering, and I think this sort of thing falls under the grey area there as well. If I'm at work and ask my coworker if they'd like to trade some antelope for walleye and we agree, theoretically we are breaking the law. Does that keep me up at night, knowing that I'm now a villainous law-breaker? Only if I haven't eaten enough antelope.

 

[JLS]

So when the Born and Raised guys gave the dudes $100 to borrow their rented horses for the day, they would've been in game violation? Rinella just covered illegal bartering, and I think this sort of thing falls under the grey area there as well. If I'm at work and ask my coworker if they'd like to trade some antelope for walleye and we agree, theoretically we are breaking the law. Does that keep me up at night, knowing that I'm now a villainous law-breaker? Only if I haven't eaten enough antelope.

Renting a horse is different than hiring services.

 

[Dan O]

If a person reimburses the guy with the horse for expenses that should be legal. If there is profit then that's a separate issue.

Dan

 

[mtmiller]

Profit is not a criteria.
https://www.fs.fed.us/specialuses/special_com_uses.shtml#sp-com-b

 

[RobG]

Profit is not a criteria.
https://www.fs.fed.us/specialuses/special_com_uses.shtml#sp-com-b

A permit is also different than the requirement to be an outfitter.