Pack out service for hire? SW Montana

[flyingvmt]

I’m not paranoid, but I’m always not naive. If you don’t think a bootleg outfitter can impact a resource you’re kidding yourself.

The sky is falling!!!

I am actually more than surprised that you are A. a member on this forum and B. support Newberg and his desire to increase participation in our "sport, community, whatever you call hunting".......

Peace out brotha!

 

[JLS]

Topics not to bring up at a campfire with Jason.
1) Gyppo game retrievers. Check.

No worries Rob. I naively thought folks on a public land, DIY forum would understand and support the regulation of commercialization of wildlife resources. It’s really no skin off my nose as I’ll probably be hunting ID and WY more in the future.

Access the hard to reach places is what keeps the hunting good. A gypo game packer could most certainly impact the quality of hunting in an area, even if you and montexan scoff at the idea.

Maybe I hit the wrong link and I’m at Monster Muley’s.

Carry on.

 

[JLS]

The sky is falling!!!

I am actually more than surprised that you are A. a member on this forum and B. support Newberg and his desire to increase participation in our "sport, community, whatever you call hunting".......

Peace out brotha!

Sorry pal, you are just being plain ignorant now. I quoted you the law. I said I supported said la; which is based off n seeing what bootleg outfitting can do to a resource. How you now parlay that into my standing as a member on a public land, DIY forum is beyond me.

I have no need or desire to tell you what I’ve done to bring in new hunters and increase participation, in reference to your point B. Suffice to say you have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.

I have no problem with you disagreeing with my support of the law, but now you’re just pulling stuff out of your ass.

 

[TheNorthStar]

What's the spread on this one getting locked up with another lecture when Randy gets home with his sheep?

 

[flyingvmt]

Sorry pal, you are just being plain ignorant now. I quoted you the law. I said I supported said la; which is based off n seeing what bootleg outfitting can do to a resource. How you now parlay that into my standing as a member on a public land, DIY forum is beyond me.

I have no need or desire to tell you what I’ve done to bring in new hunters and increase participation, in reference to your point B. Suffice to say you have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.

I have no problem with you disagreeing with my support of the law, but now you’re just pulling stuff out of your ass.

First off, I never said I supported breaking the laws you so eloquently cited for us. If its the law, then it is the law and I support it. All I was getting at was the silliness of the technicality of it for that rather large gray area and furthermore the silliness of a warden to have to hassle with that type of complaint versus actually pursuing people breaking game laws left and right. I guess I might have made a bit of an assumption that you would be the type of Montanan that I have become all too familiar with in my 5 short years of living here which is the guy that hunts Notellum canyon if anyone was to inquire about where he harvested an animal. My bad. I should not deduce such fallacies based on someone making a statement in regards to hunting areas getting thrashed by overuse/too much knowledge. Again, my bad for further thinking that you would not be for increasing our numbers (and strength) by recruiting new hunters from the aforementioned comment about too many folks knowing where game is harvested on public land.

I apologize for pulling so much out of my ass and assuming such things.

I try never to get worked up or read too far in between the lines on the inter web and the few times I do it ends up a fiasco like this.

My apologies JLS.

 

[noharleyyet]

Mother Nature's Generic Xanax, September, is almost here gentlemen....

 

[Tradewind]

Mother Nature's Generic Xanax, September, is almost here gentlemen....

Aw c'mon Harley, I'm enjoying these, er, discussions. :hump:

At least I now know I need to haul my own elk out

 

[MTGomer]

I’ve always kind of wondered how the line is drawn if we are being technical about it.

If you come pack out an elk with your horses and I put $120 of diesel in your truck, but you only burned $60 are you being compensated? Does it matter that we’ve helped each other out in these situations back and forth for 15 years? What if I buy you a $40 prime rib dinner? Give you a 1/4 of the meat? Etc??

 

[RobG]

Sorry pal, you are just being plain ignorant now. I quoted you the law. I said I supported said la; which is based off n seeing what bootleg outfitting can do to a resource. How you now parlay that into my standing as a member on a public land, DIY forum is beyond me.

I have no need or desire to tell you what I’ve done to bring in new hunters and increase participation, in reference to your point B. Suffice to say you have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.

I have no problem with you disagreeing with my support of the law, but now you’re just pulling stuff out of your ass.

At the risk of lighting this on fire again, I think what he is saying is that the number of hunters in the backcountry because Randy is showing people how to do it greatly exceeds the increase that would occur if you didn't need to be an outfitter to charge for game retrieval. One time Ben Lamb, myself and a few others chipped in $20 each for the farmer's kid who retrieved our deer with his ATV (on the kid's dad's farm). It seems a stretch that such generosity should be illegal.

 

[RobG]

I’ve always kind of wondered how the line is drawn if we are being technical about it.

If you come pack out an elk with your horses and I put $120 of diesel in your truck, but you only burned $60 are you being compensated? Does it matter that we’ve helped each other out in these situations back and forth for 15 years? What if I buy you a $40 prime rib dinner? Give you a 1/4 of the meat? Etc??

Cheap bastard. I've been splitting it 50/50 if they haul half.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

My experience as well. I found 3 outfitters in my unit "offering" pack in and pack out services. In reality they wanted nothing to do with me unless I bought the platinum package.

If you think about it game packing is a money loosing endeavor for an outfitter, most people aren't going to pay more than $400-600 for a pack out. The outfitter has to pay fuel to get to the trail head, and a full day of work for a packer, all said and done they might make $100 out of the deal. I'm headed deep into a CO wilderness area for elk this year and got an outfitter to agree to pack me out, but only because he will be in that same area already with some guided hunters... and honestly I think he is mostly doing it because he is a nice guy and I told him that I new where is camp was and was planning on hunting the other side of the area so I would be out of his hair...

"Gypo game retrievers"... Jesus gentleman

 

[JLS]

One time Ben Lamb, myself and a few others chipped in $20 each for the farmer's kid who retrieved our deer with his ATV (on the kid's dad's farm). It seems a stretch that such generosity should be illegal.

Words matter....

10) "Outfitter" means any person, except a person providing services on real property that the person owns for the primary pursuit of bona fide agricultural interests,

 

[JLS]

My apologies JLS.

Thank you.

 

[BigHornRam]

If you think about it

Big assumption to make on a hunt site wllm.

 

[RobG]

Words matter....

10) "Outfitter" means any person, except a person providing services on real property that the person owns for the primary pursuit of bona fide agricultural interests,

I didn't catch the meaning of that. Interesting exception.

 

[noharleyyet]

Aw c'mon Harley, I'm enjoying these, er, discussions. :hump:

At least I now know I need to haul my own elk out

[video=youtube;j6ez8MeAhpw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6ez8MeAhpw[/video]

 

[RobG]

[video=youtube;Z0GFRcFm-aY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY[/video]

 

[npaden]

Not sure which state it was in, but I recall some discussion about whether someone could even drop rented horses off at the trail head for you or not and whether that constituted services being provided in the field.

Maybe it was Wyoming but I think with the language in the Montana regulations it would apply there as well.

If you rent horses you have to pick them up somewhere other than the trail head, most rental places make you come to them and will even rent you a trailer to trailer the horses but if they actually transport the horses to the trail head and unload and load them then it becomes illegal outfitting.

I think the fact that the animal is dead when you are working on getting it transported out is another vague area to what we are dealing with here. As someone previously mentioned, once the animal is dead it ceases to be hunting and becomes retrieval. The regulations could be more clear on that aspect for sure.

Regulations are so fun. They can get down to exact specifics on how many hours you can hang a scent wick in a tree but then leave something pretty important like this with a few vague sentences.

 

[Tradewind]

yup

https://youtu.be/xbfMlk1PwGU

 

[PrairieHunter]

Not sure which state it was in, but I recall some discussion about whether someone could even drop rented horses off at the trail head for you or not and whether that constituted services being provided in the field.

Maybe it was Wyoming but I think with the language in the Montana regulations it would apply there as well.

If you rent horses you have to pick them up somewhere other than the trail head, most rental places make you come to them and will even rent you a trailer to trailer the horses but if they actually transport the horses to the trail head and unload and load them then it becomes illegal outfitting.

I think the fact that the animal is dead when you are working on getting it transported out is another vague area to what we are dealing with here. As someone previously mentioned, once the animal is dead it ceases to be hunting and becomes retrieval. The regulations could be more clear on that aspect for sure.

Regulations are so fun. They can get down to exact specifics on how many hours you can hang a scent wick in a tree but then leave something pretty important like this with a few vague sentences.

I am also curious where helicopter retrieval/removal of game falls in the rules and regs on out fitting. This is certainly an area that has a lot of gray or not addressed angles down to paying extra for gas if a friend used their horses to remove game or the you tube video of the guys paying $100 to borrow rented horses to remove game up to thousands of dollars in air time for helicopters to remove game. In the case of horses even if you make the hunters pick them up and haul them there is still a chance you end up sending a crew to go pick the horses up if something happens. And much like the case of the helicopter then you have employees/gear/horses in those hunting units helping hunters remove game.