Optics Question

[guppie9]

Ok, so I see on the buy/sell thread someone selling some Swaro binos for $1000 +/- and I'm trying to imagine the situation where I would drop a grand on binoculars. I know that a lot of people on this site are fairly wealthy and spend a lot of money on hunting/tags/gear, etc. I'm a simple man. I am an elementary school teacher and my wife is a nurse. We do OK, but $1000 is about 2 weeks pay after deductions for me.

Anyway, I have an old pair of Bushnell binos that seem to be out of alignment and I really would like a new pair. (Binoculars....you smartasses!) I'm looking around on Cabelas and see Nikons, Cabela Brand, and a few others in the $200-$400 range. I can see paying that. To me, that is still a chunk of change, but my anniversary is this summer, so maybe a gift. I know there is probably a significant difference between these types of optics and Swaros, Leicas, Leupolds, etc. My question is, is it THAT big of a difference??? Is it really going to allow me to spot game better, or is it more of a status symbol? I'm not trying to bust anyone's balls, and if you can afford those things, more power to you. I'm just curious, should I get something in that $200-$400 range now, or maybe save up for a year or two and get one of the high end deals. My rifle (yes, singular) has a nice Leupold scope on it that I got a screaming deal on a few years back. I certainly wouldn't spot through it, but when I have to line up a critter, I know I have decent glass.

So what is everyone's opinion on this? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Dinkshooter]

2 weeks take home for me is $1300. Far from rich.

That said I have 10x42 slc and a STS 65mm spotter. I would rather forget my bow or gun than those binos. They are way worth it to me. I know I see more game because of them.

On the other hand my truck is 18 years old with 217,000 miles. Like anything in life, you make your choices. My glass is worth more than my truck. I kill something I may never make it back to town

 

[noharleyyet]

Gup, I used Wind River binos for a looong time. They were a vast improvement from the 60-80 dollar Simmons I started out with years ago. They fit 200-400 dollar range and IMO do a god job. Have heard good things about the Nikons in that range also.. Jumped to Minox HG's last year & lucked into a good deal on some Swaro SLC's this year...personally, I can't discern much if any difference between the HG's (at less than half the MSRP) and the SLC's.

 

[A-con]

I have said many times, paying for high end optics is a matter of dimensioning returns. In other words, a $1,800 pair of binoculars is NOT four times as good as a $450 pair, not even close. That being said, there are many advantages of the high end stuff.

On the plus side;
Glassing for hours on end without eye strain..
Last a lifetime, maybe several lifetimes.
Never thinking “if I only had the Swaros !”
They will probably be the last pair you ever buy.

On the negative side;
What if they get lost or stolen
Really not necessary 90% of the time
For ½ the price you can get 95% of the quality
For ¼ the price, you can get 85% of the quality

I assume you are talking about 8 or 10 X 42s ?

There are some really good options in those ½ and ¼ of the price categories.
Minox HGs , Kahles and Vortex razors can be had for under $900
Vortex Vipers and some models by Pentex can be had for under $500

Don’t take my word or anybody else’s about a particular brand or model. Everybody’s eyes are different. Look through them for yourself and decide what works for you.

 

[IDHunters]

The cabelas brand binos in the $250 range (10x42) are really good. However, I truly believe that with glass you get what you pay for. The higher end glass is better. I bought the "classic" Zeiss when they did the re-design for $600 and there is a real difference between them and cheaper binoculars. I would really like to upgrade to the Swaros or Leicas but the $$$ will stop me for now.

Really, it comes down to how you will use them. If you hunt just a few days per year, don't sit and glass all day, or just really don't rely on the glass, you can get by with the cheaper stuff. You can feel the difference in your eyes after a few hours.

I will say that the cheaper glass has really improved in the last few years.

 

[Bambistew]

There are lots of things that people own that I could never see myself spending money on... I think there is a little bit of a 'status' symbol to owning a pair, but not anymore than driving a new car or truck, owning a big house, etc. Its all a matter of where your priorities lie... and how much money you make I suppose.

I was on the fence for a long time as well, and finally broke down and bought a pair of 10x42 SLC's last year. They're really nice and mounted on a tripod, just about make a spotting scope unnecessary some hunts.

I got by for years with a pair first generation Wind Rivers 8x32 that I bought used. Before that I had a pair of cheap azz tasco compact 8x20s Actually thought about getting another set of the compacts, they worked slick for bow hunting, weigh next to nothing and 95% of the time they were more than good enough. The 8x32's are a very good compromise though. I still use the Wind Rivers hunting from a tree stand. The Swaro's are too big and heavy and the 10x is to much for the woods. They're pretty sweet when glassing from places like this 2-3 hours at a time though.

I think the glass you can have now for $300-400 is comparable to the top end stuff 10-15 years ago.

There is a huge diffrence between the $350 windrivers I have and the SLC's, I can see better detail with my binos than I can with a cheap spotting scope at a higher power. I could get along fine without them though. One thing that blew my mind, was being able to see snowflakes falling 3-400 yards away. I had never seen anything like it with the lower end stuff.

I think you could add to Acons list

Resale value, they seem to be like a rifle, they hold thier value, unlike the cheaper stuff.

 

[Dangerous Dave]

Got tired of doing things on the cheap... if fact I'm still pretty cheap, until it comes down to the things that really matter.
We hunt those smarter than heck blacktails out here. There's a firm and fast rule: "You MUST spot them before they spot you." If you're hunting those blacktails in the forest were things are pretty up close, then any sort of optics will work just fine -or none at all. It's when you hunt the wide open areas that you MUST have the best glass money can buy. I hunt the wide-open areas and quality glass is a necessity.
The bucks I hunt purpously bed in elevated saddles and benches, waiting and watching for me to make one dumb mistake. All I have to do is show myself for a split second within their comfort zone -and poof- they're gone. The ONLY way to counter this tactic is to glass from long, LONG distance. The question you're going to ask next is: "Why not use a quality spotting scope?" My answer is that a spotting scope is very unhandy to use while sneaking closer in really thick brush. I must use the brush as cover or the deer will see me and take off. I sort of still hunt on my hands and knees or crouching and use a powerful set of binos to check out likely bedding areas through tiny open patches of brush.
Not just any set of binoculars will do the job. The bucks bed in the murkiest cover imaginable, so sharp contrast is a must. When either fog or clouds blow in those binos better be able to pass some light so an image gets to your eyes -so light gathering ability is important.
So, I use my binoculars as a spotting scope, but anything over 10X is hard to keep from shaking. So at 10X the resolution has to be PERFECT and that calls for the best glass money can buy... otherwise you get distorted, "cloudy" images. With quality glass you can make out a 3 inch fork on a western count 3 point from nearly a mile away. Try that with a $300-$500 set of binos. You MIGHT be able to tell it's a buck at that distance, but no way in heck will you be able to see that third point.
If I didn't have my top-drawer (expensive) binoculars with me hunting that wide open country, I just might as well stay in camp. They're my "long-distance radar." And yes... I really DO spot alot more bucks compared to using my old cheap set.... from a freaking mile away! The Leica Ultravids I use cut right into the deepest, nastiest, murkiest brush patch to reveal an ear, leg or antler. Worth every dollar I paid for them.

 

[1_pointer]

I'd get the best glass that you can afford. For me a few years ago that meant the $3-400 range. Though I won't claim they're as good as the top end ones, they are much nicer than I'd ever used before. IMO, good glass is neccessary whereas I haven't been able to justify great glass...yet.

Keep an eye out and you can get a whole heck of a lot of glass for less than $500 that will serve one just fine. A good place to look is samplelist.com for deals on just about every level of optic.

Now if I could just scratch together enough $$ for a pair if Leica 8X42 BRF's!

 

[Big Fin]

As nice as some of the high-end optics are, A-Con's point about diminishing returns is very true.

When budgeting your hunting dollars, it is hard to give up a good chunk of those dollars that could be used for trips/tags and spend them on premium optics, when the mid-range binoculars are still pretty darn good.

 

[Dinkshooter]

dimensioning returns?

Didn't Greenhorn just get his Swaros almost completly rebuilt after like 10 years of use?
I Can't find that thread but man, that is alot of value built into the price tag. Try that with the Bushnells/Pentax and see the bill you get. I saw the bill a buddy received after rebuilding some high end Pentax............................he now owns Leicas.

I have only had mine for 6 years, they are as good as they day I took them out of the box.

 

[Dangerous Dave]

Dink brings up a great point. I scrimped and saved for months and was finally able to afford a set of Cabela's Alaskan 10X42s in the $500 range. Oh boy,crystal clear, powerful optics FINALLY!! It was all good for about 6 or 7 years until suddenly -things started going out of focus. Those antler points were getting harder and harder to see no matter how well I focused them. And it kept getting worse.
I've always used a lenspen, quality cleaning solution and was careful not to scratch the lenses. While I can't prove this, I'm under the impression that the lens coatings are deteriorating -even inside. In otherwords -a shortcut was taken in manufacture. Everyone suggested sending them back after 7-8 years and whine like child to get some compensation -but when you think about it- why trust a product that has failed on you already? No thanks -I want durable quality and I'm willing to pay through the nose for it.
Naw... there's no bling bling, street cred attached to owning and using high-priced optics. It all comes down to using something that works perfectly each and every time. Look, nobody is suggesting throwing away wads of cash while your wife and kids starve. If it's REALLY important, I'll afford it.

 

[T Bone]

Buy the best you can and go hunt. Take a look at Doug's pricing at www.cameralandny.com. Few can beat his pricing and service.

I've had 10x50 Pentax SP's for 5 years or so. Been extremely pleased with them. I dropped them and broke the twist up eye cup and Pentax warranty was spot-on as promised.

Pentax, Nikon, Minox, Vortex all make some good midrange optics IMO.

 

[Wyodeerhunter]

Have you looked at the cabelas euro binos? Their 10x42's are just as good as my expensive ones and they are "only" 800 dollars. Mine were 1400. They have a great warranty too. I imagine after this year they are going to jump up to 1000 bucks because cabelas are selling them like hotcakes.

 

[1_pointer]

Dave- I bet Cabela's would make them like new for you! I also think that any type of glass that sees much use will deteriorate a bit over time anyway. That's the good part about a few of the major companies, they stand behind their products and fix 'em for you!

 

[schmalts]

I have a pair of $1600 Geovids, and a pair of $325 Nikons. Would it be the end of the world if i didn't have the geovids? No. Is there a huge difference in optical quality between the two?? not huge by any means, but there is some. I really feel once you get over the 300-400 dollar mark you better be doing a ton of long time, long distance glassing to make it worth the money. Long distance being the biggest factor. If you are never going to be glassing from one peak to another or waaaaay out into a flat for something you wont miss the diference. A buddy of mine spent $800 bucks on binos just to hunt deer in WI, now that my friend is a waste of money since you never look at deer here much over a couple hundred yards.
Ask yourself how far off and how long you will be glassing and then decide.
BTW, i have had 3 pairs of Steiners sent back, they do not stand behind them at all and charge you big money every time something goes wrong.

 

[JB]

A buddy of mine spent $800 bucks on binos just to hunt deer in WI, now that my friend is a waste of money since you never look at deer here much over a couple hundred yards.

here, in those the last few minutes of legal shooting time its critical to have high quality binoculars....especially on cloudy days with that buck walking up the field edge silhouetted by the forest.
if he didnt buy binoculars suited for that use I would agree.... a waste of money.
no?
what did he end up getting?

 

[schmalts]

here, in those the last few minutes of legal shooting time its critical to have high quality binoculars....especially on cloudy days with that buck walking up the field edge silhouetted by the forest.
if he didnt buy binoculars suited for that use I would agree.... a waste of money.
no?
what did he end up getting?

in that scenario in WI he would be shooting after legal hours more than likely. Then keep in mind most scopes will gather less light than binos, so seeing them in the binos is useless unless you have a large objective and the power turned waaaay down on the scope. He bough the Ziess, not sure of the model but with todays modern coatings on even the low end (400$) binos the difference is so small you are talking a couple minutes of glassing time.
I just use my Nikons here in WI. Hell, i rarely use them even when i take them because the short ranges shooting i usually just scope em out with the rifle instead of wasing time with Binos.
There was once a study done by the WI DNR and i dont remember the exact numbers but it was something like 95% of all deer are killed under 100 yards here.

 

[snake river rufus]

BTW, i have had 3 pairs of Steiners sent back, they do not stand behind them at all and charge you big money every time something goes wrong.

Stieners are just about the most overrated glass going. There are a lot of binos around that have better optics and are more rugged. Mine fell from the floor of an f-250 to the ground, while in a hard padded case, and they wanted $250 to re-align the left prism. To me ruggedness is also pretty important.

 

[GilaMonster]

Strangely enough, I've been using the same Steiners for over ten years. Hunted a lot with them and took them on hunts in four countires on three continents. I've toted them from Florida to Oregon and Texas to Quebec a lot of ground in between. I used them the last couple of years I was an outfitter and I've dropped them, banged them around in the back of a pickup. You name it, it's happened to them pretty much. I can't say enough good about those binoculars. They are still chrystal clear and work as good as the day I bought them. They have been a fantastic investment for me. I still carry and use them on all my hunts. Maybe luck of the draw...

 

[The Hedgehog]

You won't regret buying swarovski binos for a grand. It's not a status thing at all. My rifle is a beat up piece of crap with a leupold scope. Things like boots, optics, and backpacks need to be good when you use them a lot. Once you put a lot of time looking through really really good optics, you will almost puke looking through somebody else's stuff, even the stuff that is preached as "almost as good as" or "not noticably differnent than" or "not worth the extra 400 dollars". Those claims are just crap...buy the Swarovskis. They will last you a lifetime and if something goes bad, send them in. Mine have been BEAT up and I sent them in to have any eyecup replaced and was sent a pair of what appear to be new 10X42 SLC... but they are supposedly mine, just replaced 27 items.. for free, including objective lenses. If I loose my binos.. I'll whip out a credit card and buy a brand new pair of 10X50 ELs. not having glass like that would be like going mountain climbing in pair of boots that didn't fit.. I'll quit preaching now, but that's my opinion.